Yvonne Heimann [00:00:00]:
I hope you are ready for some serious inspiration from a woman who is breaking barriers, in not one, but two highly regulated industries. Today I'm sitting down with Aubrey, the powerhouse behind PayRio, the first payment provider focusing exclusively on cannabis and alternative medicine. Aubrey didn't just appear out of nowhere, she spent over a decade climbing the ranks at JP Morgan before launching into the cannabis payment space. And get this, she's a single mom of 3 who led her company into profitability in under a year. Did I mention in a highly regulated industry? In this episode we dive into how she has revolutionized payments in an industry that has been cash only for ages, forever. Her journey from traditional banking to cannabis fintech and the plant medicines that have transformed her approach to business and motherhood. If you've ever wondered how to navigate complex regulations while building something meaningful, or how to balance an ambitious career goal with family life, this conversation is packed with everything you could, would, want and need to know. And we get real about mental health practices that have been a game-changer, for both of us Aubrey and me. Ready to inspire? Let's jump in
Yvonne Heimann [00:01:50]:
And with that, I would like to introduce you to Aubrey. Aubrey is the founder and CEO of PayRio, the first payment provider exclusively focused on cannabis and alternative medicine. Aubrey's career started at JP Morgan in their merchant service group, and we're going to dive deeper into that one because I'm really curious about how. How that all works together. And over a decade, you rose to the level of executive director commercial banker. That's a mouthful. Specializing in technology and disruptive commerce in Silicon Valley. This extensive experience in Fintech has made you the industry expert and has given you incredible value in that cannabis payment space.
It's like you really have carved out your position in that area and adding to that impressive professional collection of achievements. Aubrey is also a single mother of three who has successfully led Pay Rio to profitability in under a year. Her inspiring story serves as a testament to her resilience and leadership in an industry where female executive leadership and business overall have struggled to survive. And I'm really excited diving into this with you because of your, "standard background" with banking with fin and finance, and then deciding to go into an industry that's most certainly not easy or simple. And I'm curious, where did that come from? Because you can't tell me. There is not a specific passion behind this.
Aubrey Amatelli [00:03:48]:
There is an intense passion behind alternative medicines, health and wellness. I think plant medicines, from cannabis to psilocybin, my little lady doing both there, it's just they're wonderful medicines that are going to change the world when used in the right way. And I actually, born and raised in California, in the Silicon Valley, I believe it or not, I've been part of cannabis since 2010. Like before it was legal, just seeing the home growers. And my kiddo's father at the time actually was a home grower. So I got to see the industry go from supplying the medicine when it wasn't legal, all the way through legality. And kind of how those craft growers ultimately kind of lost their jobs to the bigger, bigger dispensaries and bigger owners. And while he was in the cannabis world, I was at J.P. Morgan. And so when it was time for me, or when I felt ready to spread my wings and start my own company, I married the two passions together, ultimately to create PayRio. So that's a little background on why cannabis. Two reasons, mainly.
Yvonne Heimann [00:05:00]:
Yeah, because it's like, I've got a little bit experience of regulated industries. And it's like, even to this day, even though it is legal in most states, I don't think all States yet. And I'm like psilocybin fan over here. I love my microdosing, Microdosing so far. There's a couple of other plans in the future here. For me, it's still a highly regulated sector so there's a lot you've got to deal with and heck, I know it from the marketing perspective. I can only halfway imagine in, in the fintech sector because there is so much that feeds into it. How do you think your position and your experience at JP Morgan has put you and, and has given you the experience to put you in a position of being able to do this and being able to do this so well, to achieve so much within just a year?
Aubrey Amatelli [00:06:04]:
Thank you. Yeah, that's a great question. And, and J.P. morgan, I always say, was like the Harvard of education for payments. And I'm in the payment world. At the time when I was at JP Morgan, they were the largest credit card processor in the world. And so I got to work my way up from a salesperson all the way to leading a national team of sales, a national sales team and relationship management team. And throughout that decade just Learned the way J.P. Morgan operated, learned all of the rules and regulations with payments. Payments is constantly changing, which is why I love the industry. I learned something new every single day and it keeps my job and what I do exciting. But taking the traditional J.P. Morgan way and bringing it into cannabis where all of the businesses we work with, they're brand new to payments, they've never been able to accept payments before, it's been a cash only industry forever. So taking the big bank perspective and bringing it into cannabis and operating like I say, a mini JP Morgan within the cannabis industry did set us up for success because I follow all of the rules and regulations, I know them very well from the JP Morgan side and I'm able to validate and vet different technologies in cannabis. Which ones are compliant, which ones aren't, which ones will keep our customers safe, which ones won't. And then we'll take, with that knowledge, I'll be able, I take those products and bring it to the market.
So it's really, it's all I've ever known. And so that's what PayRio is like a mini JP Morgan with in cannabis. But it's turned out to, you know, be very successful for our customers
Yvonne Heimann [00:07:42]:
I love that, and you already mentioned that the industry is in general facing a lot of unique regulatory challenges across different states. Right. It's like it's, it's not just that it's oh cool. I walked to my, to my shop down the road. Pay Cash now we are opening the doors. Bother. You are finally being able to, to take different payments in different ways. Potentially shipping, maybe not shipping, who knows? I'm like, there is so much going where on a regular, less regulated business.
It's like you don't even think about it. So when it comes to, to PayRio specifically, what kind of systems have you built in and, and implemented with PayRio to really navigate this complexity landscape of all kinds of stuff because again, lots of regulations, lots of stuff going on, yet you now suddenly can provide that seamless payment experience that we know as a standard, but the industry just has been struggling with.
Aubrey Amatelli [00:08:55]:
Yeah, great question. I think or so ultimately what the industry has seen or the normal businesses, the low risk businesses, you're right, they just process payments like normal. They don't think about it. But over on the cannabis side and the psilocybin and all the alternative medicines, peptides has popped up too, because it's been recently regulated by the federal government. Cannabis is regulated, is illegal, based on the federal government. And so as a payment company, our governing body is Visa and MasterCard. And Visa and MasterCard always side with the federal regulation, which is. I get it.
Right. And so in order for us to assist companies that are highly or industries that are highly regulated with payments, we have to abide by Visa MasterCard rules, but find very unique ways to process payments that aren't crossing any lines. Right. And so we use a lot, a lot of our technologies on the ATM rails. So ATM rails are not Visa and MasterCard associated. We have wallet technologies that we use, we have text to pay and QR code technologies that we use. There's many different technologies that we've actually taken from other highly regulated industries like the gaming industry, for example, or Echeck and E debit, like physical check writing, but automating that in a technology way so the consumer feels like they're checking out like normal, but on the back of the, in the back there's a check being written. So there's so many unique ways that we help our customers process payments that aren't, you know, crossing the lines of Visa and MasterCard, but are also empowering our customers to grow their business in a way that they can't when they're cash only.
Or some of our E commerce customers actually have checks sent to them from their customers in order to send out the merchandise. So we're able to automate and streamline a lot better with, you know, kind of going outside the box in terms of the technology we offer.
Yvonne Heimann [00:11:01]:
And I love that. I love the finding ways to make it work without. It's like I'm just, I'm just kind of laughing over here because interestingly enough, a client I work with is indirectly in the gambling industry. It's a bingo hall. It's, it's a charity bingo. They do a lot for, for the local community. But similar, to you, it's, you have, you have the finance issue with it, you have texting issues with it where you need to pay attention what you say in your text messages. There's a lot of red tape you run into.
So with that, there has been, it sounds like a lot happening behind the scenes with PayRio and making sure everything is clear and precise and finding the ways how to make things possible. Now that combined with being a single mother of three and being the CEO of PayRio. How, how have you managed to, to keep that calendar clear, to have that family life with your kids and grow PayRio so fast. How. What's your secret?
Aubrey Amatelli [00:12:22]:
I would say the first thing that pops up. And it's been a journey for me, but my mental and physical health first, right? Because as a single mom, you know, you want, you want to. All of this is for my kids. Everything I do is to provide them the best life I possibly can. But if I'm drained or tired or irritable, you know, or upset or let the business affect me, which it does. But if I'm not taking care of my mental and physical health, then I'm not going to show up to be the mom that I'm working so hard to be. And so that's something, something that I've learned over the last couple of years. I've done, you know, I've been part of ketamine therapy that changed my life.
Microdosing psilocybin is another one. I just had a big birthday and so I treated myself to my very first ever ayahuasca retreat. So, you know, mental health and growth and becoming a happier version of myself and the self love allows me to show up for my kids and my company the way that I dream of. And so that's been a part of my journey is finding that self love and that mental health and physical health and that is setting me up for success, to be a great leader and mother.
Yvonne Heimann [00:13:42]:
And I love, I love listening to you where you're like, okay, I need to take care of myself so I can take care of others. Because it's like I really, really identify with that I always used to be somebody taking care of everybody else. Right. My own battery. What is that? It's fine. I'm. I'm okay on five hours of sleep. Yeah, no, I'm not.
And I've been on a similar journey of really taking care of myself. Being able to get the anxiety way down, sleep better, ensure I sleep well. A journey is still in my future. There is my. My control freak is still a little bit too crazy where I'm like, okay, I'm gonna need a recommendation at some point because yes, I do want to take this journey on a recommendation that somebody has worked with somebody before to do so. Because it's like I'm giving up control of my body and everything around me. It's like my control freak is not quite there yet. So I'm going to message you after the episode to get some insights on who to talk about that.
Because it's. As much as I want to control, would love to control, it's somehow in my blood. Every single minute of a day. My journey has been that, that letting go and taking care of myself, things will fall in place. And I don't know how your past is with control. I was always like, this is how it's supposed to happen and this way and this is exactly how it's going to be looking like. So it's been interesting stepping into. Into this industry, into this mindset, into these experiences and yeah, kind of letting go.
Aubrey Amatelli [00:15:28]:
Yeah. And it took a while though. So I. I would say the Ayahuasca retreat I recently had was so powerful and life changing that I was able to let go of, you know, anxiety and trust in the universe has a plan and, you know, and letting go of that anxiety and really trusting that there's a plan, I also was able to let go of some of the control freak in me. Right where I now my team, empowering them to take the lead, like take control and they want to take control and they're doing a fabulous job taking control. So kind of releasing my control is empowering the women and men on my team to be successful and grow in their career, which is also another attribute as a leader that I want to be is empowering them. So.
But up until the Ayahuasca retreat, I mean, starting a company, we started the company in 2022. I needed that controlling version of me. Like that. That is the reason we're here, like, is because I wanted to control from end to end, how we showed up, our branding, you know, the customers we work with and the employees I had and was very strict about, you know, my boundaries in terms of launching the business and was working 10, 12 hour days and that's how PayRio was started. So I'm not saying you just can sit back and work, you know, six. But now that we're there, I always, now I'm saying I'm so thankful for the Aubrey that got us to this point. And now I can release control and empower my team to keep. Keep the train going as fast as it's going.
But it's a, it's a combination. You know, starting a business is the hardest thing I've ever done in my entire life besides being a mom and. But it's also the most rewarding job I've ever had and. But it's, it takes a lot of work, a lot of grind, a lot of tears, you know.
Yvonne Heimann [00:17:27]:
Ain't that the truth though? I'm, I'm actually sometimes happy about the tears because it feels just like an emotional release where sudden weight just leaves. Though you brought something up. You were talking about that startup phase and there's a lot of work that goes into it. There is a lot of control we have to take in the beginning because it's like we are figuring things out. And me being new to, to fintech in general, I'm curious. So I imagine this. It's like as a fintech startup, I'm assuming it's kind of like that chicken and egg thing of needing banking partnerships to, to launch and get things off the ground while getting the customers on board. And it's just that, that runaround, especially in a regulated industry, right.
You want to get the clients and you see the need you. It's. The market is there, but needing that banking partnerships and, and running around. How did you. And again, correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption but if I'm not wrong, how did you overcome this, this initial hurdle to. Yeah. To get PayRio off the ground.
Aubrey Amatelli [00:18:40]:
You're absolutely right. Like that. It is the chicken and the egg in terms of. We created. We started with finding a bank which was so hard because cannabis was on my website. So. And I was brand new to the industry. Now I have dozens of wonderful banking partners but at the time I didn't know where to turn.
And then once we had our bank it was, you know, finding the right technology partners, which is very interesting because you don't know what you don't know as well. So our very first technology partner turned out to not be one that I wanted to partner with. But at least it got us there so that we could start cold calling all day long. You know, we didn't have a brand so I had three employees at the time, myself and two others we met every morning, we cold called all day and then we, we came together at the end of the day and that was our first three months. We got a few customers on board. Then we figured out the technology we had at the beginning wasn't up to my standards. Then we found new technology and so it's been growing ever since. The customers keep coming but their needs are constantly changing the industries.
Like I said, peptides recently regulated. Now 25% of our book of business is peptide companies because they've been shut off by Visa and MasterCard. So we had to make sure we had the right technology partner to support that. So it's like you take baby steps at the beginning but then you start to listen to your customers and what they need. And then our knowledge of the different technologies grew and then we started to be able to source and find technologies that we knew would be a good fit. So it's like slow starting slow but then really having your ear open and listening so that we could be the best partner for our customers.
Yvonne Heimann [00:20:26]:
I love that. And which leads to a follow up question. So if one of my listeners is interested in the industry and, and wants to build a business in like a heavily regulated industry like cannabis. Fintech itself is like regulated too. So you get like double regulated industry here. Do you have any practical steps or any recommendation on establishing credibility or vetting partners to work with? Do you have any tips of what to look for when you are stepping into the industry, when you want to team up with others or let's be honest, we can't, we can't do anything on our own. It's always about a community. It's always about our partners.
How can somebody that's new to the industry make sure then let's be honest, let's be straightforward that are not going to be ending up with, with a spammy asshole. There I said it because it's like looking at you. I love your passion. You have your head right on. You are straightforward to the point. You are compassionate and passionate about this industry. How does somebody that steps into a heavily regulated industry make sure they team up with people like you? Do you have any tips on how to vet or just approach people?
Aubrey Amatelli [00:21:52]:
I do. You said the word within your question which was community. It is so important to just dive into the community around you in the industry that you're interested in. And when I started PayRio. We were a no name and I knew immediately I needed to be ingrained in the community, at least locally around me, where I could actually travel to the events and meet the people in the community. And then we spread our wings and went to conferences in the cannabis market, you know, across the country. But I didn't want to be just a payment company coming into cannabis that didn't support the community, that gave the support of the community is why I'm here. And that gave us that credibility.
So that our goal, you know, our organic growth has been word of mouth since then. So I would say just dive into the community in your local area, find different events across the country if you want to be nationwide and then in those in those communities you can ask around and you get a lot of information about who to work with and who not to work with. If any of your listeners are interested in cannabis or CBD or alternative medicines like that is something that we've created too. At PayRio, we're a one stop shop where a customer can, can come to us. We get to know their business and then we know the exact technology that's perfect for them that we've been vetting for years. Rather than to them going on Google or ChatGPT and asking who to work with and then striking out one after the other. We've had customers who've done that who've come to us and said I've been declined five times by different payment companies, can you help? And then we get them approved very instantly. So we're, we want to be the one stop shop, the advisor.
But all of that came through us being ingrained in the community and finding the right partners and advocates and support. You do need to ask the community members for support to lift you up as well. And you can't get that unless you have that face to face interaction where people really get to know who you are.
Yvonne Heimann [00:23:55]:
Now you already mentioned PayRio is not just a payment platform, it's also a community. What's in the future for you and PayRio. What, what is it going to be a year, three years down the road?
Aubrey Amatelli [00:24:09]:
Oh well, I'm big into like the community aspect. We actually just launched a community page and we want to do more for the people around us. So we are hosting breathwork sessions twice a month just for anybody. Open zoom, come in our community. I want to, you know, we were, we've talking about a nonprofit called Pay Rio Forward, like Pay it Forward, but essentially choosing nonprofits in the cannabis and psychedelic industries. The goal is 5 per year and donating a portion of our revenue to those. So a nonprofit arm of the business is something that I've been toying around with for a couple years. I actually have my MBA in nonprofit management so it's like bringing that into the company, that knowledge.
But cannabis is highly regulated. I hope that in three to five years it's not. And if that's the case, you know, our payment arm for the dispensaries, there will be a merger or a partnership with some of the larger point of sale companies in the industry. And so I foresee us partnering with a big company and you know, sharing our customers and bringing them together in the future. Our the company will look a lot different when cannabis is federally legal. But we're here for it and we're prepared and we know that there are still other industries like psilocybin and peptides that will need our support. So that's kind of what's on my mind the next one to five years.
Yvonne Heimann [00:25:43]:
I love that vision. Aubrey, anybody that's interested in what are you up to? What's happening? Where can they find you?
Aubrey Amatelli [00:25:53]:
So pay our Instagram payrio_hq. I run it so you'll get a taste of what we're doing as a company, all the events we're going to, employee highlights, but also what am I doing on a day to day basis. See pictures of the kids. I wanted to make sure that we were an approachable brand. I think payments can be scary and so the vibe is hey, come to our page, learn about payments but also get to know the founder and the team. So payrio_HQ is a little bit more of business and personal and then we have our LinkedIn which is huge. Lots of blogs and write ups and announcements on LinkedIn. So that's just PayRio.
So reach out to us there and then our website payrio.com
Yvonne Heimann [00:26:40]:
And if you would listen to even just one episode before you know we are making it really easy to find all the guests. All of Aubrey's links are in the comment section below in the description, easy for you to click on. And if you haven't done so yet, no matter if you're listening, reading or watching hit that subscribe button so you are getting notified by the next time a She Is A Leader podcast episode goes live. Aubrey, thank you so much for all the things you are doing in the regulated industry. I love you for it because I wouldn't have my microdosing without you here and I'm excited to see what the next few years brings and hey, have you come back in in a few months, in a year and see just how fast things are happening? I have a feeling it's going to happen faster than we expect it to. Thank you so much for coming on. It's just a such a pleasure of just having such amazing, inspirational female CEOs on the podcast like you. Thank you so much.
Aubrey Amatelli [00:27:47]:
Thank you. And thank you for lifting all of us up because your platform means so much to all the women who are struggling to get out there as CEOs or maybe afraid, you know, and they can do it. And what you're doing is, you know, enabling, empowering women to, you know, feel that they can do it as well. So thank you very much.
Yvonne Heimann [00:28:08]:
Thank you so much. And again, everybody hit the subscribe button. I'll see you in the next episode. Thank you so much.
Aubrey Amatelli [00:28:13]:
All right. Thank you. Bye.