Yvonne Heimann [00:00:01]:
Have you ever felt like your business is running you, instead of the other way around? Today, we’re getting into a common struggle for service providers—feeling stuck in the cycle of chasing clients, relying on referrals, and battling burnout, all while needing to stand out and build real trust in a crowded digital work. There’s the challenge of attracting the right leads, keeping your marketing consistent, and making meaningful connections without burning out or becoming a “helicopter parent” to your business. If this sounds familiar, you won't want to miss today's episode.
Yvonne Heimann [00:00:45]:
So let me introduce you to Maiko Sakai. She is a quiz alchemist and business consultant who guides service providers to acquire clients through psychology driven quizzes. Your signature program is actually a ten step quiz creation blueprint that turns quiz making into an energizing collaboration that builds email lists, earns rave reviews and creates deep trust fast. With a blend of strategy, psychology and creativity, Maiko empowers small business owners to scale visibility and revenue on autopilot. If you know me guys, you know I love me some autopilot. Originally from Japan and now proud New Yorker, it's probably why we get along so well. She is fueled by ethnic cuisine, ultra modern design and exotic houseplants. Maiko holds an MBA from Cornell and leads with hard humor and hard won business savvy.
Now girl, we have an interesting story. Like my my guests know I have an application process. It's half my ClickUp. You can literally see the whole process on YouTube. I share all of this. However, tell my audience you came into this conversation to come onto the podcast a little bit different. And I don't think that was ever the plan.
Maiko Sakai [00:02:12]:
No, no, it wasn't a plan. So what? Turn back? Back. And I guess it was December 2024 if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, like post. The holiday, whatever. So I've been on your email list forever and for whatever reason, like, I stuck with it. I didn't unsub or whatever. And I was checking up and one day I read one of those emails that came into my inbox and it was about your really casual YouTube clip and one of them prompted it.
I clicked on it, right? And the message really was something that touched me. So what I decided to do was I just recorded a video saying, hey, I get it. I have been there and you've been super honest. I just wanted to tell you that it compelled like it was so compelling for me to record this video. That was it. I sent it over via email thinking, well, you know, that's the only way for me to send my video, so. Well, whatever happens. Whatever happens.
But then like a couple weeks later, I think I got a message from you somehow, whether you know, over IG or in email saying that, hey, I just saw your video and I recorded my response and when I checked it out, you made me cry. And it was, that's how it all happened.
Yvonne Heimann [00:03:42]:
And it went both ways. I honestly, I suck at email. It's like I still have an email that I need to reply to where for a client and newsletter subscriber replied to me too to one of my latest emails. I suck at email. If I can take my phone and just do something really quick, I do that. And especially with. With sharing my story.
What had happened is your message also had a profound impact on me. And I'm like, I can't type this out right now. I literally just went. Because again, I share a lot of myself on social media. I went to social media, I shared story how a newsletter subscriber hit me in the fields. And then at some point, I finally managed to reply to the email, which again, always takes way too long. Guys, just tag me on Instagram. It's faster to reply.
Something to the. I think they said something to the extent of, hey, sorry, I suck at email reply. But by the way, did you see the impact you had on me? And that's how we started talking. And I think, interestingly enough, I actually did follow you on LinkedIn already, but not on Instagram. I don't even know. The world is becoming really, really small. And for me, on my end coming into this relationship, it was like, oh, my God, somebody is taking the time to reply to me.
Maiko Sakai [00:05:15]:
How often. I've never done that for anyone else. I know I've never done that for anyone else. But it's just that, like, if I could pull up that very clip, I know you still have it on your channel. It just everything that you talked about there, it's like really real and nobody ever really talks about it. And I realized that scores a point, right? Like, that I'm willing to take my time to record a message to tell you that you're doing something that others are not doing. You know, like one of those things. I'll use this as an example, because you did mention it, is that it's hard to walk the walk.
Not because we are lying about it or now, like, we just like to tell others to do what they're supposed to be doing and we don't practice. It's not. That's not the intent. It just happens sometimes. Like, I'm sure your audience, a lot of them are, you know, possibly marketers or doing PR or, you know, the branding, whatever. I wanted to ask you guys, how are your social media accounts? Are they consistent or not? Because the answer can be no. And that's totally okay. Why? Because they're too busy catering to their clients.
They don't have enough time to continuously be consistent with their social media accounts. It's just by design and by default, you know, it actually happens. But it is all about how we feel about it. And, and how we communicated that, you know, that to the world to say, hey, look, this is not intentional. You know, we're not. Not walking the walk, but these things happen. And you were super honest about it. So I was like, you know what? I.
I think people need to hear this. That's how I went.
Yvonne Heimann [00:07:20]:
And yeah, I'm. I'm not sharing 100%. Let's be honest, because when we're in it, we are also in it, right? There's. There's a lot going on. But I do believe sharing the struggles, because a lot of people say share. When you figured it out, I'm like, no, by the time I figured it out, I forgot the pain point I'm in. That's what I believe in. And looking at your personal journey.
So you've also written about overcoming burnout, reassessing your.
Can you share? And by the way, guys, it's on the blog. You will find links in the description. You know how this goes. Maiko, can you share some of those pivotal moments when you realized you needed to change your approach to business?
And how did that shape your philosophy?
Maiko Sakai [00:08:17]:
Yeah, that's a great question. And that takes, like, a few different steps. Steps. I'm gonna try to go very quick on that. I started out my consulting business just like everybody else started. Starts normally, which is to start from referrals, you know, word of mouth. Usually you find your own clients locally, which, you know, luckily I have no shortage of because of where I am. So I started that way.
Then I realized there was a bit of a. A weird sort of a codependency that can potentially happen with some of the clients, which also nobody really talks about. So I wrote a blog about that. Right. You don't, like. You want your clients to leave at some point, but because of.
Yvonne Heimann [00:09:05]:
Not call me at midnight because they need something, right.
Maiko Sakai [00:09:06]:
And you want to send them their way and they can come back later, but you don't want it to. What's happening sometimes with a lot of service providers, a service business, is that they create some kind of a mechanism so that your clients need to depend on you so that there will be a continuous retainer, there will be a continuous relationship. You have to cut them sometimes. And that was like one of those, you know, the pivotal moment that I realized that I need to let them go. I need to design my offers, design my engagement, design my courses, all of those things so that they can be on their own and just leave, and I need to be okay with it. And that took some time to get used to of course. But not a lot of people actually talk about that, you know.
Yvonne Heimann [00:10:05]:
Now that brings me to another piece. But when we did our research where you are describing I, I talk about it too, right? When I talk about founders, it's our baby, we need to let go of it. If you really want a self sustainable business, you need to stop being a founder and babying your business. You need to step into a CEO role. And you describe your business and the similar situation as a living entity that needs genuine care. And I'm looking at my notes and to again also not as the baby to justify our limiting beliefs. Now how can entrepreneurs shift that mindset to nurture their business for real growth and not be a helicopter parent to their business?
Maiko Sakai [00:10:57]:
Right. There is a difference. It sounds similar. Right? And when I say and this is my sort of like a go to line that cause a lot of commotions is this your business is not your baby. And a lot of people disagree with that. Now there are two different ways when it comes to that phrasing. Let's just say one of my clients say yeah, but my business is my baby. That means she's defending it.
Yep. And that's the bad example. Good example is that I nurture my business like an infant so I will watch over just so that the baby will grow. But I'm not going to defend something that bad, you know, that happens or whatever. Like I'm not going to defend. So there are two different ways. So it really depends on how you say it. And I would realize, okay, which camp they are on.
You know what I mean, which team they're on. So how, how can you do it? I use the gardening analogy. Oftentimes you have to be able to pull the weeds, prune the trees so that what matters the most can grow. But that cutting or pulling those things are necessary. I don't know if that makes sense.
Yvonne Heimann [00:12:19]:
It gives room for the things you want to grow to grow. I'm like, I have the same conversations where it's like I, I just told a potential client this week, no, I'm not going to work with you. And I might actually have been quite rough in my reply to this because they weren't gonna listen. They were one of those clients, they want to hire an expert and then tell them what to do. And I'm like, I. You don't even listen to the half an hour I took the time to explain to you why you are on the wrong path. Why would I put my energy into this? So I weeded them Out.
Guess what?
I just signed a new client this morning, and one of my clients is flying me in next month to their board meeting to present the new. The new structure. Rather than just being online, literally.
Maiko Sakai [00:13:07]:
You just created a room for it.
Yvonne Heimann [00:13:11]:
Exactly. And that's. That's exactly. I'm like, I love that garden analogy where you're like, yeah, we are. We are weeding out and we are making room for the things we actually do want.
Maiko Sakai [00:13:19]:
Yeah, that's the. The care side of things. And, you know, don't defend it. Like, I know best because it's my baby. Like, what if you don't. Right? Like, what if you need experts? Like, what are you. Like, what are you. What are you trying to protect? What are you trying to defend? That's where the problem is.
Yvonne Heimann [00:13:38]:
Everybody just listening. I'm telling you, you always should watch. You always should watch the podcast because I make the best faces behind the scenes.
Because when.
When you talk about this, it's like, yes, we all get defenses at some point. Don't get me wrong. You're gonna. You're gonna hit some kind of a button of mine where I get defensive. However, fortunately, I have done enough work that even when I end up in a defensive moment five minutes later, I'm like, I get it. I get it. You hit something there. This was mine.
And then I can look at it because I don't know what I don't know. How often does it happen to us where we have. We have a perception of something, we have a vision of something, and we haven't done it yet, so we don't have the knowledge that somebody else has.
How are you going to get that knowledge if you say, I know what's best for my business?
Maiko Sakai [00:14:35]:
Exactly. You know, what you don't know, you don't know. And it's funny that nowadays that conversation bleeds into chat GPT conversation. This is, you know, also a juicy one. How do, like, you.
You can input what you don't know. So don't come back to me and say that. That, wow, like, I'm all good. Because, you know, I can just use ChatGPT or whatever. I look at your face, whatever comes out as good enough. I'm like, okay, if good enough is your standard and you're happy with it, I absolutely have no problem with that. It's totally fine. But you can't input what you don't know.
So how do you know that the work came out is going to do the job for you?
Yvonne Heimann [00:15:25]:
I knew I would love to. I knew I was going to love this episode because it's like you speaking to exactly the conversations I also had with like, I'm not threatened by AI because guess what? AI hasn't gone through what I have gone through and it doesn't see the connections. I see. Do we utilize chat GPT and, and sonnet and all the things? Yes. Love me Magai. Guys, I'm putting it in the description. I don't even just work with one AI. I'm not even just stuck in chat gpt.
However, with. We use it with clients. We use it in my business. I use it for brainstorm. I use it because I'm an external processor. I use it daily. I don't even remember a time and day where I didn't have AI. However, what you get out is equal what you put in.
If you don't even know what questions you need to ask, what you need to research or what you need, how do you, how are you going to, how is it going to give you information?
Maiko Sakai [00:16:30]:
Yeah, exactly. And you're going to take it because it sounds good enough. You know what I mean? And not only that, most of those AI tools are very confirmation biased. They are going to be your cheerleaders. But that's not what you want. I want my GPT to sweat. Right. I want my GPT to argue with me.
There's a whole different way to use it. And here's just a quick example. So I was working on my client's quiz yesterday. It took me six hours to just do Q and A because the GPT just can't keep up with me. And I'm not letting it go to say that is wrong, that logic is not working out or like, you know, that description isn't all that on point. How about this? How about that? That takes like hours because I know what I want. That's different.
Yvonne Heimann [00:17:23]:
I want to dive deeper into quizzess because you, you set me up perfect for that. So you have your quiz creation 10 step blueprint. So yeah, you literally help entrepreneurs create quizzes that collect all the relevant information. So there is. Yeah, it's not just the buzzfeed, which, which Disney princess am I. You are using quizzes as lead generation. Now what are the most common mistakes you see people do when they try using quizzes as lead generation? What is some of these? Oh my God. If I, if I could tell everybody you are doing this wrong. That's the thing
Maiko Sakai [00:18:10]:
So the biggest thing is usually where they focus on the most in terms of all the elements that are required to build quiz funnel for lead generation and email building. So a lot of times people are Too worried about House. So how to set up a funnel, which platform to use, you know, are they all integrated, yada, yada yada, or the tech stack and all that stuff. And a lot of people don't even talk about the quality of the quiz itself. What is the angle? How are you going to make it stand out from the rest? Like, for example, if you're a branding strategist, I'm just using it as an example. There are thousands of quizzes already out there. So how are you going to make it so different, so insightful, so valuable that they're going to be so wowed and compelled to put their primary email address in?
Yvonne Heimann [00:19:03]:
Not just a scam meme. I have newsletter ad for everything that I don't necessarily care about.
Maiko Sakai [00:19:98]:
See, everybody does that. But you want their primary email address, wouldn't you? I do. You know, so. So making sure that happens, you actually have to put enough amount of attention to how insightful your quiz is. And you know, like, I always use this example of this bad question in it where, you know, what are you struggling right now? So what's wrong with that question? What are you struggling right now as part of your quiz? First off, it's boring as a hell. And not only that, it has the word struggle, you know what I mean? And that's a touch negative. And it also forces people to burn extra brain calories to figure that out and they get tired of it and they just want to jump off. Oh, I don't want to talk about my struggle right now.
Do you know how many different ways to ask the same, same exact question without using that word, without talking about something that's negative? So many. But how are you going to put that in the chat GPT if you don't know what to ask?
Yvonne Heimann [00:20:22]:
And especially I am somebody, I am always focused on the negative. I see what can go wrong. But I don't want to install this into my audience. I don't want to install this into. Right into somebody of already saying, you're burning your business down. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And I had to learn it myself too, where it's like, I'm not going for the problem because again, it's like, don't think of an elephant. Don't think really? So we are already placing that struggle into somebody.
And I'm like, don't. So I love that you, I love that you brought. Brought that up.
Maiko Sakai [00:21:02]:
You still wanted to find out what they're struggling. You still do. Make sure. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yep.
Yvonne Heimann [00:21:09]:
Now, with that, if somebody in my audience wants to start, I think we all like playing quizzes, right? It's like I'm. I'm the personality quiz queen over here. I cannot stop. It is an amazing way to. To build a lead magnet. Now, what's that one actionable step you would say my audience can take today? To not keep pushing it out?
Maiko Sakai [00:21:39]:
Yes. So that's where the ten step blueprint comes in. And I've been pointed out, like, why did you Even name it 10 steps? That's too many steps. I'm like, listen, it's not that bad because first, the five is the most crucial part. The other five, you kind of have to know that that's involved with it. So, you know, you can go to my main website. It's right over there. You can download it for free just so that you get to have this general understanding of what's involved to create one.
So that's a good start right there. And I've been thinking, I wanted to do something really special for your channel, so what can I do? So I have something under my leave. Do you want me to share?
Yvonne Heimann [00:22:24]:
Oh, yeah, I. Guys, I had. I also had no idea this is coming. Just saying.
Maiko Sakai [00:22:26]:
I know everybody has quiz ideas and they haven't pulled the trigger, and I totally understand the reasons why so why don't I give away 5 spots to talk about your quiz idea. I can audit it, and recalibrate it so that you're gonna be on the right path, and that's 30 minutes. And I'm happy to do that for your audience
Yvonne Heimann [00:22:54]:
Why, why. Guys, why do I have to be the host because I totally want you to check out my quiz because I think it needs polishing too.
Maiko Sakai [00:23:00]:
So the 1 spot is taken, 4 left
Yvonne Heimann [00:23:06]:
So we are saying that the host sometimes gets some goodies too, because it's like I feel it, I know my qui has bones behind it, there's information behind it but I suck at storytelling so I know it's not as good as it can be. Guys, I'm going to figure out, by the time this episode is live, you guys are going to have to check out the subscription, we gonna do something. If you are in my newsletter you are definitely in the loop of what's happening, it'll be in the description. I don't know yet how we gonna do this giveaway, it's gonna be in the description. So, find it there, I've figured it out, that's why I do technology. Now after this surprise left field, I gotta figure out some technology, thank you for that by the way. That's an easy 2 and a half hours of your time that you are offering my audience so thank you for that, that means a lot and you aim. This is what I want to close this episode, your aim to be extremely location independent, which completely aligns with me, right now I'm in the middle of Kansas, let's be honest. Next month I'm gonna be back in Sacramento, the other month after I'm gonna be in Michigan. I'm kinda all over the US right now, so I get the extreme location independent, there's a freedom to it, there's also a safety to it to knowing yo can pack things up and go when you want to go or potentially go. My mom is not the youngest, my grandpa is not the youngest, so what advice do you have for entrepreneurs that want to design a business that supports their ideal lifestyle? What do you want my audience to walk away with today?
Maiko Sakai [00:25:08]:
Definitely this relays to you in a sense for what you offer to your audience right? The back end and systems setup, it can get hairy so hire an expert but you also need to be in things enough to know how it's set up. But if that foudation is solid, it frees you up, your time, your energy, those ae the 2 important currencies so my suggestion really is to invest in that unsexy but can be really sexy part of the backend of set up. It may take some of the up, you know, front loading work, but it's like a gift that keeps on giving, kind of thing. So don't skip on it, that is THE thing that I want to tell everybody about, that everything else either you can work on your own or you can work with your team to build things around it. So that you can be everywhere else and also the second thing that I have to say is this. Hiring, right? You're not hiring people to manage them, remember that. You want your people to manage you, make sure you're hiring system is set up for that. Now I can talk about this for another hour
Yvonne Heimann [00:26:36]:
We might just gonna have to have you back. Cause like shoutout to Luby, she's bossing me other than me micromanaging her so I feel you on that one
Maiko Sakai [00:26:44]:
You practiced what you preach
Yvonne Heimann [00:26:46]:
I try to, I try to. Honestly, this year is really really hard on Standard Operating Procedures and getting all the information out of my head because I also follow onto the same trap, right? I have moments where it's like, what process did we decide on? Which AI persona am I using for this? And which prompt am I using for this? I even don't have the brain power to keep it all. Because sometimes yo run a process once a quarter and yo don't remember, now I spent an hour trying to figure out what I did last time to make it work.
Maiko Sakai [00:27:24]:
Right, everybody's going through that I feel like and I'm sensing that from other business owners as well but for that reason obviously being in your ecosystem, in your bit, you know, is really important because you're sharing that information and you know, whoever is listening to this podcast right now, you are not alone. But you really need the support and the knowledge base and be active in those spaces, including yours Yvi.
Yvonne Heimann [00:27:53]:
We're working on it and it is actuually the first time I'm mentioning this publicly. We just aligned with a tool to help us make standard operating procedures so simple, you don't even need to get Chat GPT, it's like, you know me I'm an external processor. I talk. It does nearly everything, 75% automatically so everybody that is struggling with Standard Operating Procedures, keep an eye out for the YouTube channel, there are things coming really soon. This wasn't planned but it just happens to allign. Maiko, I am so thankful that you reached out originally, that we connected on social media, that I got to meet you and hopefully one of these days I'm making my way all the way over there and I can just stop by for coffee because I would love to meet you in person one day
Maiko Sakai [00:28:45]:
We can talk for days
Yvonne Heimann [00:28:50]:
Oh My God. Yeah I have a feeling we're going to be back on the podcast too. And this, this lady is why. Just reach out, just reach out, you never know what;s going to happen. Maiko literally had just posted on threads and was like 'do you guys know any podcasts' and I'm like 'hey, why don't you come on in to mine' and here we are. Seize the day, write that message, send the video, just do the thing. And with that thanks so much for being a friend, thanks so much for coming on to the podcast, just thank you.
Maiko Sakai [00:29:30]:
You're very welcome and my pleasure. I was so looking forward to this chat and I yeah, you made my day.
Yvonne Heimann [00:29:40]:
For everybody else, if you haven't suubscribed yet, you know what's coming. Hit that subscribe button. And you'll find all the links in the description to go follow Maiko, go grab her blueprint, go do all the things and whatever I'm telling you in the decription to sign up to the giveaway, you know it, I'll see you in there. Bye everybody