Boss Your Business - The Podcast

Yvonne Heimann [00:00:05]:
I had promised you. I am bringing Matthew Riven back. So you are back.

Matthew Riven [00:00:10]:
I'm back.

Yvonne Heimann [00:00:12]:
And today I want to talk with him about the idea. Actually my experience as well as other women that I have talked to. The experience of running a business as a female, being a COO, CEO, being all the things and trying to date, finding the balance with the partner, no matter if that is friendships or relationships and dealing with that power dynamic. And like when you. When you look around, I don't know how your social media looks like, but my social media and my algorithm looks a lot like, first of all, some hotties. We gotta have those in there. But also the conversation of, women don't need you anymore. Women don't need men anymore.

Yvonne Heimann [00:01:07]:
We got all the strength. But then you have the other side of. Strong women in business want to be served at home. Or use other words, we don't. It doesn't have to be served, but be more vulnerable at home, being able to let go. And that's exactly why I wanted to bring you back on to talk about that. Power dynamics. How can we women who go through this work with our partner on that, but also what can their partners do? So let's start right in the beginning.

Yvonne Heimann [00:01:40]:
We have a strong female running business. Being the boss. When I looked at me, it's like, this is getting done. How can I let go of this? I know I do that. I know I'm bossy. How can I stop talking over men and just let them take the reins?

Matthew Riven [00:02:04]:
There's a lot in what you've asked. And thank you, of course, for having me back on. I appreciate it, as always. I love, love being on the podcast with you, love our conversations. They're just so full of energy, so far afield and sometimes very challenging, but always fun. A lot of what you asked is going to come down to two things. Communication and vulnerability. Right, ouch.

Matthew Riven [00:02:29]:
I don't want to be vulnerable. Communication is always going to be the key. That's all there is to it. Nobody can know what you're thinking. Nobody can know what you're feeling. Anytime you're looking at your partner, whether it's spouse, fiance, relationship, friend, you've been, whatever it is, it's going to end up being. How come you didn't know that? How come you didn't anticipate my needs? How come you. I've done this the same way for years.

Matthew Riven [00:03:00]:
How can you not know? Nobody can know what's going on in your head. That's it. Period. Done. Yes. You have relationships where you can see couples who are finishing each other's sentences. They're. They're in a pattern.

Matthew Riven [00:03:13]:
They. This is the way it's always been. But sometimes there are missteps along the way, or sometimes the finishing each other's thoughts is actually covering up. It's an unsettled piece because there's something underneath the surface and they've just learned not to talk to each other about that. So I question sometimes if those couples who are so enmeshed, which is a term with a lot of weight behind it, so in tune with each other that they're finishing each other's sentences. Are they truly doing that or are they just not bringing up things?

Yvonne Heimann [00:03:44]:
Is it kind of like an autopilot?

Matthew Riven [00:03:45]:
Right. So communicate. What is it you need? What's going on? Plus, it's also the ability to hear your partner without taking on their energy or their feelings. We've talked about a make me feel, and for those who missed the first episodes, go back and look at them. A make me feel is if you've ever had the thought or expression of he makes me so angry. She pisses me off. Somebody else does something to elicit emotions in you. It's a fallacy.

Matthew Riven [00:04:22]:
It is your choice. Somebody could be screaming at you and yelling at you, and instead of getting angry, you can look at them and go, okay, well, your anger is. Pardon the language, but your anger is your, not mine.

Yvonne Heimann [00:04:35]:
Yes, I would love to tap into that because been there, done that. I've taken on so much in the past.

Matthew Riven [00:04:40]:
We all have.

Yvonne Heimann [00:04:42]:
First thing is recognition. Cool

Yvonne Heimann [00:47:44]:
I'm doing this. I'm letting you make me feel. It's my decision to take this on.

Matthew Riven [00:04:49]:
I only smile just because that whole thing of the first. The first step in solving a problem is knowing there's a problem. So, yes, it's the recognition of that.

Yvonne Heimann [00:05:00]:
What's the next step I need to do to not take it on? It's because just because I know doesn't mean I actually don't take it on. Right.

Matthew Riven [00:05:12]:
For most people, it's not a one and done thing. Oh, as long as I don't take it on, as long as I know I don't have to take it on, I don't take it on. Good, Problem solved. And you never take it on again. For most of us, we have patterns in our heads. It's the way that we've always fired those neurons, that we do these same things over and over again. And breaking that pattern takes more repetition. It takes 10,000 times to lay down a trail.

Matthew Riven [00:05:37]:
It's going to take 10,000 times to break that trail and 10,000 more times to make another trail. The first step is when somebody's yelling at you and not getting angry or not crying or not having those emotions is just saying to yourself, this is their stuff, not mine. This is their stuff, not mine. It's not going to work every time. And you recognize that there's a problem and maybe nothing's going to change. And you're always going to do it, but over time, you're going to get better and better. Better at it. You're not always going to be perfect.

Matthew Riven [00:06:09]:
You're going to get better at it. And so going back to the powerful couple where either both are powerful or one is and one isn't, come home from the office and things are going on. Why are you mad? Why are you upset? What's going on? And listening to your partner say their truth without judgment. No, you're wrong. You can't tell somebody that their feelings are wrong. It's. I mean, in many ways you get to the point of gaslighting at that point in time. Their truth.

Yvonne Heimann [00:06:39]:
Would love to tap right into that. There is one thing, one sentence that came up in my NLP studies that I've always fall back onto when it comes to that where it is. Two truths can be true at the same time. Yes, you can feel how you feel about a certain situation. I can feel completely different about the same exact situation. And they are both true.

Matthew Riven [00:07:05]:
You could have two siblings who grew up in the same household experiencing a traumatic event. One took it one way and one wasn't bothered by it at all. Both of them are accurate. Those truths occur to each individual.

Yvonne Heimann [00:07:22]:
And that always helped me be able to. In a situation where there potentially is friction, where it's just opposite views of the same situation, where I'm like, okay, take a breather. This doesn't mean my truth is not true. It just means we look at things differently.

Matthew Riven [00:07:45]:
There needs to be the recognition. And I will bring it up. Certainly nowadays there needs to be the recognition of there was a fact that happened. Dad or mom, whatever uncle did X, that is a fact. The interpretation of it by one sibling, the interpretation of it by a different sibling, the interpretations are still both valid, but the fact happened. So in this day of everybody has their own facts. No, there is one set of facts. Your interpretation may be different, but that's where you can come in and say to your partner, why are you so angry? Well, you always do this and you always do that and you always do this other thing.

Matthew Riven [00:08:26]:
And just coming back and saying, no, I don't doesn't help the situation ever. If somebody is saying, you know what you're doing something that bothers me, take that in and hear it. It is not the time to go down that spiral of that bothers you? Well, let me tell you what bothers me. That just cycles things down. So when one partner says, I have this pet peeve, I just don't like it when you chew with your mouth open. Oh, yeah, I can't stand the way you do whatever the next thing is.

Yvonne Heimann [00:09:03]:
And you just bounce each other up.

Matthew Riven [00:09:05]:
And you're just winding each other up and you're not solving anything. Great book. And I don't remember the author's name. The book is Do I have to Give Up Me to Be Loved by you? And there's a great flow chart in there which basically starts, here's the point of your argument and on one side you have My intent is to defend myself. I'm not going to take in any new information. I'm going to defend where I'm always coming from. Nothing is going to change. And it's all about not feeling anything, not feeling any feelings.

Matthew Riven [00:09:37]:
The other side of the flowchart is I have an intent to learn. Why is this bothering you? What is the impact on me? Why does this upset me so much or not at all that it bothers you going down the floor? There may be nothing that changes along the way, but you're doing it from a place of knowledge and curiosity and an intent to learn about your partner and yourself. And so the communication with a powerful and we're talking here, female CEOs with a powerful female CEO and their partner who may or may not be as powerful and coming in and saying, we need to communicate better. We need to communicate without judgment. I need to listen better. A lot of times we all do this. And I think sometimes when you have 8,000 decisions you need to make a day, what happens is you get about this far into an argument or this far into a discussion and all of a sudden you're going, okay, I know the solution. And you're not listening to the rest of it.

Matthew Riven [00:10:38]:
Slow yourself down. So I know the solution. So one of the things to do.

Yvonne Heimann [00:10:46]:
You Right, We've been there, done that.

Matthew Riven [00:10:48]:
Yeah, we all have. We all have. Some of us are very fast thinkers. And I understand the points you're getting to. I understand you're like three points into your ten point bullet list. I know where you're going. So I'm just going to short circuit it and get to here. You're cutting somebody else off.

Matthew Riven [00:11:07]:
Listen to all those points. One of the things that happens a lot, especially with the very super busy, is scheduling time. And we've talked about this, we talked about this in our little pre conversation before turning on the camera was how do you fit in with one or two extraordinarily busy people? How do you make time for each other? Whether that is, I have board meetings next week and I have to prepare for these meetings. I have a conference. I'm going to or whether it is works perfectly fine. But you know, there's a gymnastics meets next week and you've got to take him to soccer and then we've got robotics camp and then we have all these other things make time. And it sounds really dry and it sounds really clinical and it sounds just the opposite of romantic. Schedule time.

Matthew Riven [00:12:00]:
Have a date night if you need to schedule. Frankly, I'll put it out there. If you need to schedule sex, book time for intimacy. Whether that's a date night, whether that's quiet time, whether that is we need to sit down for two hours, send the kids off, we're going to have dinner. And then we have to talk about the budget of the finances for the next year or the next month. Household budget, not work budget or it's dating or it's sex or it's dinner. And I know you're dying to say something.

Yvonne Heimann [00:12:30]:
Because I've witnessed this in other couples. I have a friend that for the last 17 years since they've been married, I think might even be more. They have one day a month, their anniversary day. Every single single month is a pre scheduled date night, period, End of story, no question, no excuses.

Matthew Riven [00:12:53]:
So if they get Married on the 17th, every 17th of every month is their night.

Yvonne Heimann [00:12:56]:
Yep.

Matthew Riven [00:13:00]:
And one of them's traveling, but not the other. They'll figure something out on zoom or whatever it takes.

Yvonne Heimann [00:13:03]:
And the thing having heard of having her talk about this, the thing is again, we get into a habit, we get into a routine, we get into to the autopilot of a relationship. It's the same thing. Just like driving down the road. We get into an autopilot, we get comfortable with each other, we know exactly, we finish each other's sentences and it becomes an autopilot. It's a pattern interrupt. Even though it's a habit every single month. It's a pattern interrupt in that everyday relationship where it's like, oh, remember yeah, we actually chose each other. We actually did this.

Yvonne Heimann [00:13:40]:
We are not going on with our everyday life. And same thing with another couple friend of mine. They have combined goal meetings me and my business. I have my KPIs, I have my goals, I have my business goals. We scheduled with the team. We are doing this. Why is that not done in a lot of relationships?

Matthew Riven [00:14:05]:
Now again, the caveat. One of them is it sounds clinical, it sounds not romantic. It sounds just black and white rote, boring as hell.

Yvonne Heimann [00:14:19]:
The funny thing is I'm definitely the systems person having a plan for this. Thank you. I don't have to think about it.

Matthew Riven [00:14:25]:
But it, it does work when, when you're talking past each other, when you're missing. Missing each other. You need to schedule time, not fit something in. And you know, there needs to be flexibility.

Yvonne Heimann [00:14:40]:
If it's important to you, you're gonna make time for it. If it's not important, that's kind of also that underlying point to it. If your relationship is important to you, you will make the time.

Matthew Riven [00:14:50]:
It's in my parlance. And this is gonna be an NLP thing for you. If all you want to do is want something, going to get is the wanting is. You're going to get the feeling of wanting. Either do. Bring in the. Bring in the Yoda quote, either do or do not. There is no try, which is actually a really.

Matthew Riven [00:14:10]:
Yes, It's a funny thing from a Muppet in Star wars, but it's incredibly accurate. Don't try because all you're going to end up doing is trying. You're never actually going to succeed. Don't want to do something, make the effort to do it. That's the question of whether something is important to you or not. You'll make time for it. We all have that friend or I don't know how you do it every day and you manage to get to the gym for an hour because it's important to them. How is it you manage to meditate for an hour every day because it's important to them and they make the time for it? You made the point about your friends who have the monthly date night that certain day of the month.

Matthew Riven [00:15:58]:
You can learn a lot, good and bad from watching your friends, from watching their relationships. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors. So caveat there. We don't know what goes on behind those closed doors. The loving, amazing relationship on the outside may be horrifically bad behind closed doors, but you can learn a lot from watching your friends and picking those things that seem to work well. Or actually, let's go back to communication. Having that vulnerability to talk to your buddy, to talk to your girlfriend, to talk to one of your guy friends and say, how is it that you and your spouse do so well together? What is it that you do? I've seen you do this. How does that.

Matthew Riven [00:16:40]:
And they may tell you the story of, oh my God, we came within days of signing divorce papers when we started working on this and you had no idea. So again, have communication and vulnerability. Have the vulnerability to say, honey, we have to talk about this, because it is just pissing me off. Have the vulnerability to say to one of your friends, it's not going great for me right now. I need to know how you and your partner did it, because you seem to have an amazing loving relationship. Tell me about it. Communication vulnerability are going to go a long way. Not putting blame on each other and just having the ability to communicate.

Matthew Riven [00:17:15]:
It's. And I'm sorry, there's a lot of people who are watching right now are going, it's not that simple. It is that simple. It's hard to do. It's hard to feel vulnerable. It's hard to feel that scared. It's difficult to do, but it is that easy.

Yvonne Heimann [00:17:35]:
Now that's a perfect lead in to a conversation that I've been seeing coming up. And that's a gender conversation, that's a male, female conversation where I'm going to try to stay away from labels here. But specifically on the conversation of, of that change that has happened in a male, female relationship where women used to be taking care of the house, taking care of the children, getting you the slippers the moment you get into the house. Now it's just.

Matthew Riven [00:18:10]:
And you're smoking jacket and pipe. If we're gonna.

Yvonne Heimann [00:18:11]:
Right, okay, if we go all the way back. That's what it. That's what it used to be. And now roles are shifting. Women are working, women are doing a lot of things. And there is just. It's a shift in that relationship. I'm not saying either which one is good or bad.

Yvonne Heimann [00:18:30]:
People can be happy in any which way the relationship looks like. But I can also see how when those labels, those ways of living shift, it can become really difficult for people to adjust. So with that, the standard box for men was, I'm bringing the money home, you feed me kind of thing. And I'm going all crazy on this one here. Now suddenly men are being challenged with, I don't need you. I don't need you to provide for me. I don't need you to pay my bills. I'm doing all of that.

Yvonne Heimann [00:19:13]:
And now suddenly men are challenged to change their role, to not be the money pit anymore, to have to learn to some sense that what men have been taught as children of you're not allowed to have any feelings, you're not allowed to cry. Now suddenly you are getting thrown into the. This pit of having to swim or drown with that. I'm like, I kind of feel for men because I'm like, that's a big.

Matthew Riven [00:19:47]:
And the pushback is massive. The pushback against what you're talking about is Massive. So there, there's. We've talked about this a lot. I talk about this a little bit already in, in most of the podcasts that I have been on. This comes up in different sort of ways, but it comes back to the same thing. So masculinity is being challenged in a lot of ways right now. So what is masculinity? There is power and femininity and power in masculinity.

Yvonne Heimann [00:20:17]:
And both carry each one of those.

Matthew Riven [00:20:21]:
Both carry power and both carry needs and both carry emotions behind it. And it's not actually a sex or gender issue. There are parts of me that are going to come across as very feminine. There are parts that are going to come across as very masculine. Same thing with women, same thing with leaders, same thing with CEOs. Is you have the label of masculine energy versus being in your feminine energy. The problem, I think one of the many problems when it comes to masculinity is the toxicity that is out there right now. So masculinity, providing for others, having strength, having power, having that energy of decisiveness and provision for others and providing safety and security.

Matthew Riven [00:21:17]:
Femininity, of being caring and having more of the emotional energy and the growth and the security and the safety blanket energy. And dear men, when you block off anything involving emotions, when you are defining yourself as I must provide for others, I must provide security for others, I will now have no emotions of my own. You will make less than I do. You will take care of the home. You will do these things. I will look at my sons and tell them they will never cry. And I will give you something to cry about if you forcing them into sports instead of whatever, pick something that theater, dance, music, forcing them into these things because that's how a man is raised, that's not masculine. That's being toxic.

Matthew Riven [00:22:20]:
And one of my main themes, I heard this years ago and I loved it. There's no such thing as toxic masculinity. Why not? Because if you're being masculine, you won't be toxic. And if you're being toxic, you are not masculine. Pardon my language. If you're toxic, you're just being an ass. That's all there is to it. And so what you're talking about, men's roles are shifting right now.

Matthew Riven [00:22:50]:
And hey, guys, suck it up. Your spouse may make more than you do. There are women out there who will make more than you do. There are women who are going to be more successful than you are. If the basis of your own value is making sure that you are oppressing somebody else, that's just toxic. It's toxic for you, it's toxic for them. And it's a terrible way of going through life when you have to oppress somebody else to get your own value. So that's the.

Matthew Riven [00:23:22]:
I'm gonna. That's. No, I'm not interrupting a woman. I'm just finishing my thought. That is the toxic side of things. So your point of what is changing for men is, hey, guess what? Your spouse may make more than you do. You want to be masculine, then you support your partner. You help them grow.

Matthew Riven [00:23:43]:
You help them become the best person they can be. You have a son who is. Wants to dance. Wants to dance ballroom or ballet or jazz or whatever, and support them. Let them be amazing at it. You have a daughter who wants to dance. Fantastic, great. Support her at it.

Matthew Riven [00:24:00]:
You have a daughter who's damn good and is going to end up playing Division 1 women's hockey. Absolutely support her at it. But that's being masculine. So you support your partner. Things are changing, but it doesn't mean that you lose your masculinity based on your spouse having a title or being in the news or having stock options when you don't, congratulations, you married a powerful woman. That is fantastic for you. Run with it.

Yvonne Heimann [00:24:33]:
And I think where the support now comes in, it used to be money. Don't get me wrong, that that was an easy one. It is now more of a emotional support where I'm coming to a secondary story that's talked a lot about, especially when you come more on the sexual preferences kind of. Kind of reels and stories. Where I see it in me. It's not a everybody is all the same, but I see it in me where it's like the moment my office door closes, I don't want to make decision. It is nothing worse to me with a partner of saying, please just figure out dinner and what do you want? Dude, I just fucking told you to please just make a decision on dinner. Because I don't want to make a decision.

Yvonne Heimann [00:25:27]:
And being able to just hand off that power, hand off that decision making, knowing that I am safe with giving somebody else the power of making decisions for me.

Matthew Riven [00:25:44]:
Now I'm gonna. I'm gonna jump on one thing. There is when you say to your spouse, I told you

Yvonne Heimann [00:25:51]:
He can check. in once with me, though, for dinner. And then after that, can you just please.

Matthew Riven [00:25:54]:
Well, it's one of those where I told you I don't want to make a decision right now. Make a fucking decision. He may have had a bad day too. So that's where communication has to come into play. He may have had a bad day too. There may be things going on that you don't know about yet.

Yvonne Heimann [00:26:07]:
That reaction was my baggage of the past of still having to make decisions after telling him five times, can you please do this for me tonight?

Matthew Riven [00:26:13]:
Right? Those things come into play. And sometimes it may be, we both had shit days. You know what, it's doordash. Other times it's again having those conversations. But that's some of what we've talked about in the past is the leadership and followership. It's those power dynamics is I spend the entire time making decisions. I want to come home and not have to make any. And this is not a gender thing.

Matthew Riven [00:26:41]:
It is not the fear female power leader, the female C suite that does this. The male C suite has the same problem as well the male CEOs and CIOs. And if you're coming in every day and you've had to make. It doesn't even have to be a C suite. It can be I come in from the shop or whatever it is and oh my God, I had a crap day and I had to do all these decisions and I have to have done all these things. Doesn't matter what gender you are. There are times when I have made decisions all day long. I have been dealing with people all day long.

Matthew Riven [00:27:15]:
I want to come home and not have to make a decision. I want to come home and not have to think. If you are both coming home from situations where that is your work life or that is your stress level and neither of you want to make a decision, one thing that I would recommend is, fine, guess what you're doing on Sunday or Saturday is your meal prepping for the week. So you come in and meals are taken care of and meals are done. What a simple solution to avoid having this argument time and time again of, what are you doing for dinner? What are we doing for dinner? You know what? There are different answers sometimes. It could be, it's an even day, I'm cooking. It's an odd day, you're cooking. It could be meal prep and to.

Yvonne Heimann [00:28:00]:
Not have to make the decision to begin with

Matthew Riven [00:28:02]:
Not having to make the decisions to begin with. There are a lot of great ways to meal prep. And no, not everybody can do the same meal six times during the week. I have seen, right? I've seen couples, I've seen things online where you spend all of Sunday or a couple hours on Sunday, a couple hours on Saturday, whatever, making a whole bunch of Ziploc bags, frozen of all, everything that it takes that in the morning when you leave the house at 7am you unzip it, you throw it in the crock pot, cover it up, turn it on to medium or turn on to low, go to the office and 12 hours later when you come home, everything's done and you have that meal and great. That's your leftovers for lunch tomorrow, meal prep, simple solution, done. That's just one idea to it. Some of it is a lot of times you don't want to have to make these decisions all the time, constantly. You need a safe container.

Matthew Riven [00:28:55]:
You need a container with your partner, both genders, both partners towards each other where you can be safe and vulnerable and felt heard and felt secure that I can come home and go, I've had a crap day. I need to sit down on the couch and not hear the kids and not hear this and not hear that. So fine. That's maybe when you take the kids out for a walk and you walk the dog and you do that because wife just got home or husband just got home and this is what I need to do. And maybe that just becomes the ritual in the household. Create a separation between the two. With the dom work that I do, and we've talked about that in previous episodes, it's building that security and it's building that safety and it's building that means of leadership and followership to say, what does it take for me to separate from one part of my life and step into another. Sometimes for we talked about the schedule. Date night, scheduled date night.

Matthew Riven [00:30:00]:
You're not going to leave the office at 5:00 and be in date night mood at 5:30 because you need to step out and you need to find a separation. Find whatever works for each other to get into that role, to change your mindset. Great study. I don't remember who it was. Just looking into each other's eyes for 60 seconds. Take your eye, watch. Take your watch. Take your timer on your phone.
Set a timer. Just look into each other's eyes. That's it. Don't look away. Stare into each other's eyes. Take some breaths. Breathe together, attune with each other. Do what you need to embody yourself and get into your body and feel what's going on and let all that energy settle out.

Matthew Riven [00:30:50]:
Feel what needs to be felt. Take a deep breath with each other. Just look into each other's eyes. Have the moment, have that energy. Whether that's sitting by yourself, whether that's holding their hand, whether that's touching each other. Whether that's not. Do what works for you and your partner. Figure out what that is.
Let the day go. And then get into your date note. Get into your. Whatever it takes to be. It doesn't even have to be date night. We're gonna have a really, really hard conversation. We need to talk about some financial stuff that's going on. Usually the hardest thing that couples have to talk about is finances.
We need to talk about finances. Okay, great. Do it again.

Yvonne Heimann [00:31:33]:
As you can tell, I don't. Yeah, it's.

Matthew Riven [00:31:35]:
Yeah, but you get into that mode. It's like we love each other, we care about each other. We're trying to make this work. We're. I said the word try, and I caught myself doing it. We're going to make this work. What is that going to entail? We need to talk about finances. Okay, you know what? Let everything go.
Take that breath together. Remind each other we're hearing this together. I'm not blaming you. You're not going to blame me. We need to talk about this. It's going to be a difficult subject. Okay, let's talk.

Yvonne Heimann [00:32:05]:
And one thing I want to bring up there is it's okay, too, when it comes to something like finances, to say, I am not in the space today. I know what it's going to do to me if we go down that difficult topic. Especially when you're struggling with it, when you're working your way out of debt and all kinds of things. Not using it as an excuse, not as a. Oh, yeah, I just don't want to deal with it. No, I know my emotions today. I know what happened. I am not capable of doing this today.
We are doing this next week and rescheduling it.

Matthew Riven [00:32:44]:
Another word for that is having a safe word. And no, I'm not kidding. In some of the work that I do, of course safe words are required. Being able to say, I'm not in a space for this right now. This is not going to work for me. Yes, I know. We have this conversation on the 3rd of every month. We talk about finances from last month.
We. Our budget. This is a bad day for me. Can we reschedule this to the 4th of the 5th of the month? That is taking care of yourself. That is. Excuse me. That is being an adult. That is.
I'm not in a good place. This is not about you. I had a crap time. Things are really rough right now. Let's talk about this in a day. I need a day. And that is just. That's having a safe word, that's a lot of time where this training that I've received fits into everyday life.
It's not always about the bedroom and that kind of thing. It is about the living room and the dining room and the nursery and the boardroom and the shop floor and the appliance store. If you need to have a discussion, argument or problem you've had with the fridge you bought two weeks ago that just died, you need to have that dominance and have power to go talk to the. All of these things, work, bedroom or boardroom and everything in between. So the ability to say, as you said, this is not a good time for me. This is not. I'm not in the right headspace for this. This is not going to work.

Matthew Riven [00:34:11]:
Things are still too churned up. Great. I laughed at it because it's like, I have a safe word. I'm going to say, no, not right now. And that's allowed. Again, talk about safe space and having that container, the ability to say, no, this is a boundary. I can't do it right now. I won't do it right now is.
And being heard, that's a safe space. It is a boundary. Boundaries don't get pushed. You have negotiated these things. You have a safe word, you can use it without reproach, without being yelled at, without being judged, without being blamed, without being called weak.

Yvonne Heimann [00:34:49]:
And as an example, it can be as simple as we met each other online. We've been before we started working and all the things we are not just coach, we're friends too. And the first time when we met in person, we literally, we knew there's going to be a lot of going out and exploring, exploring things and explore, exploring the area. And I know that I can get really overwhelmed in situations. I love people and I also like to put them aside. So it's. It's this. Okay, where is the level of people recharge me to? Holy fuck.
Now they are draining my battery. So when we met the first time in person, it was laid down that, hey, I need a break. Literally.
I think that was even our safe word. I need a break. And we both knew if one of us says, I need a break, it has nothing to do with the other person. It's just literally, I'm like, holy cannoli. My head is spinning. I'm overwhelmed. It's too much right now. Too many people, too many things, too much input, too much just coming at me and it's like, cool.

Yvonne Heimann [00:35:57]:
I can't right now. Just go away. Leave me alone. I can center again. And having that safe space, having that knowledge that me as somebody that's always wanted to save everybody, always wanted to take care of everybody knowingly. And having that frame from the beginning to be able to say, I can't right now, knowing, you are not going to take this personal. You are not going to take this on. Because that's what I always worry about when I set a boundary.
I know it's none of my business. Learned that have been working on that. But at that point where our friendship started, I was still on a level where it's like, oh, my God, what is he gonna say? What's gonna happen? Is he gonna take a personal. Is he gonna be offended by it? Bullshit. We set this up and it was double and triple easy for me. In the verge of learning, I'm not here to save you. I'm not here to worry about it. And it's just. It was amazing to have

Matthew Riven [00:36:58]:
And it's. It's great when you have people who can. They've worked on their stuff, they've cleaned their stuff up, they understand, make me feels and all the things that, that, that I've worked on. You're open to it. Your NLP background. So when we met you in San Diego, I'm in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And the coaching. And the coaching became friendship and then the traveling.
I'm here in San Diego, obviously. And so having that ability of. You knew enough that you had the capability with me of saying, I need a break. And it was a safe space for you to say I need a break, instead of my saying, I'm often not in San Diego. I want to see everything. Let's go. I don't care that you need a break. Let's go.

Yvonne Heimann [00:37:44]:
He has the car keys, go!

Matthew Riven [00:37:45]:
That's not going to work. So we had that balance with each other, the openness because of the communication and the vulnerability and the negotiated boundaries to create a safe space that we could be heard and seen and not judged, which is everything that we started talking about at the beginning of this podcast when it came to communication with a power couple, or depending a half power couple. So having that built in makes everything easier again. From the friendship to the boardroom to the bedroom, all those things in between. A lot of things just really will boil down to vulnerability and communication. You need to talk to your partner about what's going on. You need to be vulnerable enough to tell them what's going on. You need to be comfortable enough in your vulnerability to hear what somebody else is experiencing from you and you do that all in a container where you know you're not going to get yelled at, you're not going to get judged, nobody's going to leave, you're not going to get abandoned, any of those things.

Matthew Riven [00:38:53]:
And so, so much of what goes on is often just miscommunication or it's not hearing your other partner. You are, you know, I just got another promotion at work and you're mad at me instead of being happy for me. That's your stuff. Because you're jealous, you feel like you've been left behind. You have this skewed definition of masculinity. All these types of things, it's communication, it's openness, it's vulnerability, it's that safe container. All of that goes a long way towards healing so many of those issues that individuals and couples deal with. And I said individuals because sometimes it's, you don't even have to be in a partnership to take all these things on and know that you have to communicate better.

Matthew Riven [00:43:45]:
It's with subordinates, with managers, and don't care who you are. You have people who report to you or co workers that look up to you and you always have people that you report to on a shop floor somewhere. As a new teacher, you're going to have other teachers who are coming in and you're going to find yourself very quickly, not the lowest one in seniority. If you're a high powered CEO, you've got a board you're answering to, you've got shareholders you're answering to. So everybody has people they report to or not. You don't need to be in a relationship to go, I need to communicate better, I need to hear better, I need to listen to my people better. And all of that will make you a better leader. All of that will make you a better follower.
All of that will make you more successful in your friendships, in your business, in your finance, in your relationships.

Yvonne Heimann [00:40:34]:
Now, we talked about a lot. There's a lot in this episode, which is why I love having him on. I love my audience to be able to walk away, being able to take action. Now, you can't, quote, influence other people. You can't make other people do something. However, not however. I know my audience is first of all action oriented. They check themselves just like I do.
Okay, heard you got that. For everybody that's out there right now that is finding themselves in this episode, that is finding like, oh, I might have not been at my best and they want to start better communicating and start those conversations again. We can't make anybody else give us that safe space. We can only hopefully take them along with us on this journey. How can they get started? How could I have started? This open communication three years ago?

Matthew Riven [00:41:40]:
It goes along with the make me feel. I can't make. I can't make anybody angry. I can't make anybody happy. Can't make anybody fall in love with me. I can't make anybody follow me. I can't make anybody communicate with me better. I can't make anybody be vulnerable with me.
I cannot make anybody feel safe. The word I used was invite. The only thing that I can do is invite you in. The only thing I can do is give you an invitation. Whether that is a verbal invitation. It's like, look, I invite you to have. Come have a conversation with me. Whether that is in the manner in which I carry myself, whether that is the energy I have with inside me, whether that is how I portray myself, whether that is in my actions.

Matthew Riven [00:42:30]:
The only thing that I can do, invite you and say with my invitation, body, energy, words. Okay, I'm somebody you can rely on. I'm gonna listen to you and not judge, and I'm not gonna throw it back. Now, if you have somebody who came out of a family of origin, they. The family they grew up in was, ooh, any emotion was just slammed on, was just used. It was manipulated. It was used against you, they're going to be very hesitant to trust you. They're going to be very hesitant to step in.
And what you're going to have to do is make that invitation over and over and over and over and over again. And you're going to very much. It's. It's. As a, As a, As a coach, I do this all the time. When I have a client who comes in and they're not comfortable, I'm not.

Matthew Riven [00:43:20]:
You were easy

Yvonne Heimann [00:43:21]:
I'm like. I go back and it's like, oh, my God. There were situations where I didn't trust you. There was certain, absolutely certain topics, certain things where I'm like, wait, what I am actually safe here.

Matthew Riven [00:43:37]:
Actually, there are clients that will take six months. And what is that, 26 weeks, if not more than one session a week, it can be 50 to 100 times where I have to maintain my invitation and I have to maintain myself as a safe space. Because if you blow up once, you've lost all the trust that you've started to build, and it can take a long time, you have to. When you're in. In a client coach relationship, whether you're in a conversation with your therapist, whether you are with somebody at work, whether you are with your partner, and you decided to make a change and open up that door for trust. It can take a long time, but that is the best thing that you can do is make that invitation. And when they finally start opening up, you don't judge. Oh, my God.

Matthew Riven [00:44:42]:
Really? That's where you're coming from. Even if what they're talking about is so incredibly simple. You're like, oh, my God, we could have taken care of this months ago if only you had said, that's just putting labels. That's just putting shame. That's just simply looking up and saying, wow, okay, yeah, we can do that, we can do that and then doing it. A lot of this is going to be trust. You have to open up and open that door and wait for the other person to come through. You cannot grab them and drag them through the doorway.
The best thing I can do is open up the door and say, I'm gonna wait in here for you. And this is gonna be a safe space. And at some point in time, they may enter. It might be right then and there. It might take months. They might kind of look inside the door and look around for a little bit and run like hell. And the next time they're going to step in a little bit further. It sounds really basic.
It sounds. When you're using the words, wow, that's incredibly simple. It's really difficult to do.

Yvonne Heimann [00:45:48]:
It's really difficult to step through that door.

Matthew Riven [00:45:51]:
It's really difficult for some people more than others to step through that door. But everybody's got a history. Nobody gets out of childhood unscathed. I don't think I've had a podcast where I have not said that nobody gets out of childhood unscathed. We all have our stories. We all have our wounds. We all have our boundaries. Understand that your partner, your friends, your relationships, your co workers, your bosses, your subordinates, whomever that is, they have their ones too.
And they're going to manifest in different ways. And so, again, coming right back to it, communicate, be vulnerable. There is strength and vulnerability and showing who you are. And you'll be amazed at how quickly things change. But again, it may take a while.

Yvonne Heimann [00:46:36]:
And with that, tell the audience, you should have seen the first two episodes. But in case you haven't, first of all, go back and watch them.
And then for anybody that wants to dive deeper, where can they find you?

Matthew Riven [00:46:49]:
A couple of places. I website. I work at the STIR Institute. S t I r and you can find us @stirinstitute.com. you can also find me at matthew.riven on Instagram. Matthew 2 Ts R I V E N. So Stir Institute or Matthew Riven.

Yvonne Heimann [00:47:10]:
So go give him a follow. I have a feeling it's not gonna be the last episode I have Matthew on. And I'll see you in the next episode of Boss yous Business.

Matthew Riven [00:47:23]:
Bye, everybody. Thank you, Yvi.