Boss Your Business - The Podcast

Yvonne Heimann [00:00:04]:
Hello and welcome back to yet a little bit of different episode of Boss your business mindset. If you've been around my social media for just a little bit, you know that I've spent the last few years doing a lot of work, going through a lot of changes, having left a toxic relationship back in 2019, moving to San Diego, getting ready to probably move again. I figured it is time for an episode to talk about, to talk about all of that, to talk about some of the things that have happened behind the scenes, talk about a lot of the lessons I learned, personal and business, and bring somebody in that has done a lot of that work with me and introduced you to master Matthew Riven, bring you on and talk a little bit about the work you do, the work we have done, the work I have done that crosses the line between personal and business. So it's going to be some fun. It's going to be some fun.

Matthew Riven [00:01:24]:
Graze the line between personal and business. I wouldn't say it crosses it. Just kind of graze it a little bit.

Yvonne Heimann [00:01:31]:
And like, I think especially with small business owners, with, especially women that are building their business out of a passion, I don't think it's crossing. I don't think it's gracing. I think there is no line. But before, I love the look already, before we dive that deep, you guys know me, I already dive deep from the beginning. Tell my audience, who are you? What do you do? How do you get here?

Matthew Riven [00:02:03]:
How did I get here? How I got here is a, it's a bit of a convoluted story. I was in my, I was living my life in my twenties and thirties, and I was just, I didn't know it. I was angry all the time at everything. I was one job after another after another, jobs that I didn't, I liked, but then I didn't like. And it wasn't really what I wanted to do and relationships that weren't working for me time and time again, but I didn't know anything was wrong with that. It was just, it was just my life. You don't have any recognition that something is wrong. It's what you're used to.

Matthew Riven [00:02:40]:
And I was fortunate that I met. So I'll admit I belong to a cult. I'm a crossfitter.

Yvonne Heimann [00:02:47]:
Oh, God.

Matthew Riven [00:02:48]:
Yeah.

Yvonne Heimann [00:02:48]:
That is a cult.

Matthew Riven [00:02:49]:
It's a cult. I admit. There, I've said it. It's a cult. I met a psychologist and I'd worked with psychologists in the past, and it just didn't work and it didn't stick. And it just wasn't right for me. And I met this gentleman after a workout, and I asked him, what do you do? Expecting one of the generic answers. Cognitive behavioral therapy, this kind of gestalt therapy is one of these things.

Matthew Riven [00:03:10]:
And he said to me, I help people break the patterns in their lives that are no longer working for them and come up with healthier ways to live. And I thought about that, and I said, you know, I am having yet another job I don't like. I am breaking up with a woman for the umpteenth time. Same woman, umpteenth time. And this has been the same pattern and the same feelings I've done over and over again. I need to start looking at this. And very quickly came to the recognition of how angry I was. And I remember him looking at me going, there's a lot of hurt under there.

Matthew Riven [00:03:42]:
Ah, there's no hurt. It's just anger. Cause I'm a guy. We don't have hurt, we just have anger. Women are typically the opposite. And yeah, there's a tremendous amount of hurt. And the nice thing about working with Doctor Mark is I went through a lot of therapy with him and a lot of hard work and a lot of frustration and hurt and anger and tears and getting all of that out. And I did it individually with him.

Matthew Riven [00:04:06]:
There was a lot of group work. Group therapy is fascinating at times with the right person. He uses a methodology called transactional analysis. And he trained me. He trained me at transactional analysis. He taught me how to do it. He gave me all the intellectual things. I actually ended up going to the same training institute that he went to.

Matthew Riven [00:04:25]:
And that's how I got my transactional analysis background. That's about half the story. So the other half of the story is I was raised to, to be a Boy scout. And I don't mean a trustworthy, loyal, blah, blah, blah, boy scout. Yes, I did that as well. But I was raised to be basically a Boy scout is the male version of a good girl. My bet is a lot of.

Yvonne Heimann [00:04:52]:
You mean the ones that says yes to everything, even if they don't want to, that serves everybody else but themselves. That kind of good girl.

Matthew Riven [00:05:01]:
They form. They say yes when they don't want to. And I was raised to be this boy scout. No desires of my own, pleasing everybody else. I had to, as the expression goes, I had to give up me to be loved by them, whether that's parents, siblings, friends. I was very passive aggressive as a kid. I was a bit of a stinker. A lot of a stinker.

Matthew Riven [00:05:25]:
Because the only power I had was saying no. And then as an adult, I didn't get what I wanted without playing a game or pushing back. And I was always doing what I was supposed to, as opposed to what I wanted to do. And so working with Mark broke that. But the other thing that came into play is the more interesting, or just as interesting side. I was always sexual growing up, fascinated by women, fascinated by women's bodies. I was the kid who was taking the clothes off the barbies, the whole bit. Absolutely.

Matthew Riven [00:06:00]:
But I knew being raised as a boy scout, boy scouts don't have sexual thoughts or desires, and they certainly don't have kinky thoughts and desires. The non vanilla trajectory. We don't. We're not supposed to. Same with the women, whether it's a good boy, good girl, whatever. And so I kept it buried. When I first started, the girlfriends and those kinds of things. 1618 years old, we don't have the life experience.

Matthew Riven [00:06:23]:
I wasn't looking at anything that out of the ordinary, but a lot of the girlfriends were like, you wanna do what? And that was too much for them. So I got shamed again. It wasn't a religious household overleap, but there was a lot of shame. I actually always fascinated with the psychology of sex. For me and for others. Why do you like what you like? Why do you like that? Even if it's not a kink that I enjoy, why do you like that? I'm fascinated by that to the point where at university, I took human sexuality classes, not the lit school. Okay, I need two more humanities graduates to graduate. Let me just take this class.

Matthew Riven [00:07:03]:
Whatever. I took the 600, 700 level graduate nursing courses in human sexuality. I was friends with the professor for decades after I left school. But even there was a little bit of shame from her, not directly. She looked at me and said, don't go into this as a career. She actually worked with. She was old enough. She worked with Alfred Kinsey from the Kinsey Institute at Indiana University.

Matthew Riven [00:07:28]:
And she said, don't go into this as a career because as a boy, you're going to come across as creepy or predatory.

Yvonne Heimann [00:07:35]:
And I think there is such a huge difference between Europe and the states.

Matthew Riven [00:07:43]:
Yes.

Yvonne Heimann [00:07:44]:
Looking at me and America is quite.

Matthew Riven [00:07:48]:
Repressed when it comes to homosexuality.

Yvonne Heimann [00:07:50]:
I remember, oh, my God, when was that? That was still back in the days with Pete. Late husband was doing movie. I'm like, I'm the european, right? So I get the question, hey, do you want to be the exotic dance? I'm like, hey, I grew up with nude beaches. Who the hell cares? We all got the same thing and had fun with it. And I'm like, why does everybody have such a problem with that? Interestingly enough, though, in my own story, I went through a similar growth with that, where it's like, oh, I don't get to show the deep neckline on video. So podcast has changed, where I'm like, screw that. Why can I not show up like that? Why can I not do that? And what do I wear? How do I show up? I was lucky enough to not have been judged early on and were able to play and do some things and ended up more vanilla just because life happened and came back around to it. But it's this idea of judging somebody for a perception, for a liking, where it's like, who the hell cares to go into the personal here.

Yvonne Heimann [00:09:06]:
Yes, I do consider myself kinky. And I love the kink community, the real one.

Matthew Riven [00:09:12]:
Oh, we can talk about that. It depends on how you were trained, everything else.

Yvonne Heimann [00:09:16]:
Because the real, the honest kink community is going to have conversation, is going to have such clear communication. If something isn't clear, if it might have been perceived differently or it might mean something differently. You ask questions, you keep asking questions, and it's this interest, this open communication, and not this behind hold hands. And it's just.

Matthew Riven [00:09:44]:
Or there's a lack of education, or it comes out as dangerous. So my training, my sexuality came out because all of my work to, quote unquote, divorce my parents, to become the man I wanted to be, I did all that with Doctor Mark. I got out of the jobs I didn't like to do, jobs that I enjoyed. I opened up the rest of my life to do things that I wanted to do for me, not because I was parentally shoulded into them. And so I did that with everything but the sexual side, because most of the time with psychologists and psychiatrists, they're great with the traumas, the great with the family of origin issues, they're not great with sex, especially certainly not kink. And so I lucked out in that a few years ago, happenstance came across my Instagram feed was this woman by the name of Kimmy Inch. 25 plus years as a dominatrix, and she was offering a three day, 1 hour a night class on what she called erotic leadership. And she wasn't talking about Dom and sub.

Matthew Riven [00:10:52]:
She was just talking about leadership and followership, how to bring that out, how to use your Eros energy, how to use your sexual energy to be okay in a leadership or a followship position. And I spent a number of years actually competing in ballroom, so I understood leading and following, and I took this class, and it was great. And I offered some insights and some things on the online community. And a couple days after the class was done, and there were dozens, if not more than 100 people in this class on Zoom, I got an email from Kimmy asking me to schedule 30 minutes with her. Like, there were 100 plus people in this class, why? She didn't do this to everybody. And so we got to talking for that half an hour, and she invited me to take her six month mastery certification program in how to become a dominant, a professional dom, basically the male version of a female dominatrix. And my getting into that class was a story in and of itself. But I took the class, and I was amazed at how much overlap there was between the psychology component and the healing component and what she does with somatic therapies and doing it to help people make change in a healthy way, and all my transactional analysis knowledge.

Matthew Riven [00:12:11]:
And so I have blended the two of them together, and that's. That's what I do, is I'm a healing dom, helping people get what they want out of life, get their desires met, whether that desire is I want to grow my company from 100,000 a year to a million, or whether that's I want a better relationship with my spouse, whether that's dealing with the kids or dealing with the finances, or better in the bedroom.

Yvonne Heimann [00:12:39]:
And I think that's where a lot of that crosses over. Looking back at my story, looking back at those moments where it's like, oh, my God, I've done it again and again and again and again. Starting to work with you is where I saw those patterns overlap, meaning, what has a lot come up online with my community, as well as with friends, is that moment of just freezing. You don't do anything, or you say yes to something you don't want to, and like anybody female watching, how often have we said yes to something we don't want to? Been there, done that. And it shows up in business and in personnel where it's like your boss might be like, hey, can you just get me a coffee? And you should be. You're not the secretary, but you still do it.

Matthew Riven [00:13:32]:
You need to smile more and be less assertive, be less aggressive, be less of a bitch. Well, the trigger response is flight, fight, fawn, or freeze. So, yes, in a scenario where you need to run away, parking lot, bad guy coming at you, that kind of thing, great. Understandable. A lot of times, we'll do that in the office. How do you fight? You lash out somebody, you find yourself screaming and yelling at somebody. You flight by, I need to get out of this situation. I walk away before I either yell at somebody or cry in front of them.

Matthew Riven [00:14:04]:
I leave the office. We'll come back to this tomorrow. We'll deal with this another time. That is a method of flight. You end up with a freeze where you just don't know what to do. Or, like many good girls, boy scouts, you fawn. Yes. Why did I say yes? And then you're gonna spend the next couple of days beating yourself up, going, I shouldn't have done that.

Matthew Riven [00:14:25]:
And now I'm stuck, and I don't know how to get out of it. And you have all. All that anger and angst and ick that comes into play. And some of that we can deal with therapeutically, somatically, with dom techniques. Some of it we can deal with psychologically, with transactional analysis, of helping you realize what you're doing, why you're doing it, and break those patterns that aren't working for you all to get to the desire of what you want, desires are key.

Yvonne Heimann [00:14:59]:
I think. The desire in itself, the energy of desire, and allowing ourselves to have desires. And I'm especially thinking about business desires right now, where it's like you want to do what you want to turn your business in a one, two, $3 million business. You want to be on stage. You want to have that. You to allow yourself to have that desire, to ask for that.

Matthew Riven [00:15:32]:
Those injunctions are really powerful, and we've learned them early on. Anything that in your mind starts with the word don't, don't be successful. Don't grow up. Don't be powerful. Don't be meek. Don't be a child. Don't do this, don't do that. They are ingrained in us from pretty much in utero, and then we grow into that, and then we have to start breaking those patterns.

Matthew Riven [00:15:59]:
And it's hard. It is difficult to do, and there's lots of ways to do it and lots of focus methodologies that will get you there, whether it's talk therapy or it's Dom work. It's part of the fun.

Yvonne Heimann [00:16:12]:
And the interesting thing for me is how many of us women, me included, that are in a C level position, that are in a leading position. The moment I close the door and I come home, I'm done being boss. I'm done being in a leading position. I've done this every single day. All day long I come home and I don't want to, and I don't want to. And I see a lot of conversations going on online, and it doesn't really matter to me which words you use. If that is dumb, sub, if that is leading or following, if that is masculine or feminine, I do believe we all carry all of them.

Matthew Riven [00:17:03]:
I'll challenge you on one thing. Masculine isn't always leadership, and feminine isn't always followership that'll challenge you. You can be masculine in a submissive role, you can be feminine in a dominant role. But I understand what you're saying is that the stereotypes exist because people fit them. And the stereotype sometimes of a sub, especially when you're talking about the C level, is the gentleman who is running a billion dollar business is making decisions every single day, affecting millions of people or billions of dollars, and just wants an hour a week or an hour a day. I don't want to think anymore. I want to be told what to do. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Matthew Riven [00:17:51]:
It's just getting that energy out of just. I need to find this, to relax, to make a change. It doesn't have to be a billion dollar business. It doesn't have to be a C level executive. It can be. I've had three kids running them back and forth between school and gymnastics, and back and forth and back and forth. I have to cook, I have to manage the house, and I have to do everything else. I have to figure out what they're doing over the summer, when the school year is done, and on and on, a million miles an hour.

Matthew Riven [00:18:15]:
I don't want to make a decision on what's for dinner tonight. At the same token, you can have a powerful leader who is constantly battling a situation, and they want to come home, or they want this situation where, you know what? I want to lead and be successful at it. So you have the other situation where a leader comes home, an executive comes home and says, I want to lead and be followed without the argument, without the fight, without needing to. And they want to feel that power. All of that comes into play. Now we're talking leadership in an executive role, in a business role. It can be in the bedroom as well. And to do one in one will lead to those transitions in the other.

Matthew Riven [00:19:04]:
So you know what that power and that energy feels like sometimes when it comes to energy and emotion, just letting it out. There's more room out here than there is inside. So, so many people bottle up their emotions thinking that's the safe way to do it, and you find yourself. I'll give you myself as an example. I used to run around with a backpack full of 80 pounds of anger. And it was my norm, it was what I was used to. And I wouldn't notice that I was really, really angry until it was 100 pounds. And then I would do something to lash out, hurt myself, hurt others, lash out, just do something, not in a healthy way to get that anger out.

Matthew Riven [00:19:45]:
But I'd never get back to 80 pounds. I drop it back to 90 pounds.

Yvonne Heimann [00:19:49]:
And that becomes just enough to take the edge off.

Matthew Riven [00:19:51]:
Take the edge off. And that became my norm. Now I'm walking around with 90 pounds, and then it grows at 120, and I drop it down to 100. And it took all that work to realize that was my norm. And then it took all that work to take off the 80 pounds of anger. I don't walk around with that much anger anymore. I don't walk around with the hurt underneath the anger anymore. I have my energy.

Matthew Riven [00:20:15]:
I have the desires I want out of life. And I go after my desires in a healthy way that doesn't take advantage of anybody else, that doesn't hurt me, that doesn't hurt others. And that's how I got into this role, is I had a desire to. I took the Dom mastery training class originally to make myself better with partners. Be a pleasure, Dom. So I would be better at working with others. And then this whole mix of transactional analysis and therapy came into play. I realized I could use this to help myself and help others get more out of life in a way that they don't expect.

Matthew Riven [00:20:59]:
Desires. I keep coming back to that. If I ask a client about. We'll give you a good example. If I ask a client about. Tell me about the time your father did XYz that he did. A lot of people put their parents on a pedestal. Mom and dad did nothing wrong.

Matthew Riven [00:21:18]:
They were great. They raised me. I was tough. I was the. And they won't talk about the negative things that happen. Tell me about that incident at school again, when all the kids did this. It doesn't have to be capital t trauma. It doesn't have to be a military issue.

Matthew Riven [00:21:30]:
It doesn't have to be physical, sexual, childhood abuse. It could be a lot of little t's that add up, but nobody wants to talk about that. So I'm going to talk to you about. Tell me about your desires. What is it that you want out of life? Okay. Why do you want that? And we refine and define that desire. Okay. Think about yourself.

Matthew Riven [00:21:50]:
As you've got the part, you show the world just in general. Then you got some walls, and you got this really pretty garden that you show your friends. Then you have another set of walls. Then you have this gorgeous garden that you show your intimate, close friends, then a big set of walls, and then that central core of you that almost nobody gets to see. That's where your desires live. If I try and get through all of those walls, it'll take us forever. It'll be very, very difficult. It'll be very hard.

Matthew Riven [00:22:16]:
Unless you really want to make changes, you're not going to do all that work. It's tough.

Yvonne Heimann [00:22:23]:
And even if you want to do those changes, it's a lot of work.

Matthew Riven [00:22:26]:
It's a lot of work. Let's talk about the desires. It's something you want out of life. So we talk about the desires and this gorgeous plant in this garden that you want to grow. What's keeping it from growing? Because it's a little sickly, it's a little weak, it's a little small. What's keeping it from growing? Well, I'm not supposed to be successful. Why not? Because my dad did this. Let's talk about that.

Matthew Riven [00:22:44]:
And now you're coming from this place of the desires that you want, whether it's sexual, whether it's permission to be CEO of a $3 million company. Now we're coming from the inside out. Talking about your desires is a secret passage through all those walls. I was working with a client, and I love this story. I was working with a client, and she was telling me about four or five fantasies that she was sharing with a boyfriend. And she said to me as we were working, three of them were really exciting, but two of them, it brought up a lot of sadness. It really brought up a lot of ick that she had trouble dealing with. Enough that she brought it up for us to work on.

Matthew Riven [00:23:28]:
And I said, well, hang on. I know you. We've worked together for a while. I know your proloclivities. All five of those fantasies were really pretty hot. What was it about these two that brought up sadness versus the other three? And she's like, well, a couple of boring friends previous to this one had treated me in such a way that it kind of brought up sadness. We talked about that a little more. What about previous boyfriends? What about former spouses? Did they do those same kinds of things? Yeah.

Matthew Riven [00:23:59]:
Took a little bit to dive into there. It's a pattern that had been repeating. And about a half an hour into our session, I asked the question that I, frankly, already knew the answer to. Did your father ever do this kind of a thing? And the tears came and the sadness came and it was like, oh, my God. Yeah. Why did. Had we talked about that directly, we never would have gotten there. A couple of fantasies that went ick.

Matthew Riven [00:24:26]:
And we were able to trace it back in such a way that she let me through the walls and let me through the defenses. Cause we were talking about sexual desire. And now all of a sudden, we got to the core of an issue of something that happened when she was a kid and was never gonna bring up had I gone after that directly.

Yvonne Heimann [00:24:46]:
And I think what you are also really great at is reading somebody's energy. Like, we had more than enough situations where in the middle of something completely, whatever, standard conversation. And it's like, wait, what just happened? I get the question literally from you, like, what just happened? Because you catch up on that energy shift before I even do. I'm like, I've been doing work now for how long? I realize a lot of my patterns finally. And there's enough patterns. I never realize just literally just chatting over coffee. It often happens where just telling an old story or whatever, or any planning, and suddenly it's like, wait, what just happened? And we then start digging deeper of just realizing why was that energy change there? What in that whatever we were talking about just completely changed me. And coming back around to your carrying around your anger, you might have caught the face on that when he was telling that story.

Yvonne Heimann [00:26:00]:
I'm a logical person. Emotional, logical. In one of those sessions when we were working, little Evie is carrying around a lot of anger because it's like, it makes sense. Fine. Parents did the best they could with the resources they had.

Matthew Riven [00:26:16]:
Not many of our parents purposely do things to mess us up.

Yvonne Heimann [00:26:19]:
Our parents are, but they're humans, too.

Matthew Riven [00:26:21]:
And our parents are doing the best they could. Nobody gets out of childhood unscathed. Your parents are doing what was done to them, what they thought was best. Nobody does it on purpose. If they are doing it on purpose, that's something else entirely. That's a different outcome. But nobody does it on purpose. So, yeah, your little Eevee was carrying around frustration and anger, and we don't, as kids, know how to healthily get that out.

Yvonne Heimann [00:26:46]:
And I remember you used the same phrase with me in that moment where it's like, there's more room out here than there is in here. He told me to scream into a pillow, and I told him to go fuck himself. I think I actually used that language on that moment.

Matthew Riven [00:27:02]:
How many times since then have you messaged me or said to me, I was screaming into a pillow? Or how many times has it worked for you?

Yvonne Heimann [00:27:10]:
It took a while. It took a day of not just little Evie being angry, but big Evie being angry. I had a day where I was so mad at the situation, at something, and I'm like, I was scheduled to go live, and I just felt that energy boiling in me. I wanted to punch somebody in the face. And I'm like, I need to do something. I need to be. I need to be live on camera and show up within the next half an hour. I'm like, fine, screw you.

Yvonne Heimann [00:27:43]:
Fine.

Matthew Riven [00:27:44]:
Screamed it in the pillow, didn't you?

Yvonne Heimann [00:27:45]:
Look, I took my couch pillow. I didn't use the bedroom pillow. There's something about that energy that I didn't want to have in the bedroom. Took my couch pillow, and I fucking screamed into it. And I'm like, don't tell him. But he was right. Don't tell. It was the boiling, the cooking.

Yvonne Heimann [00:28:06]:
The anger was just before you worked with rather than here.

Matthew Riven [00:28:10]:
What would you have done with that anger? That podcast wouldn't have gone well, or you would have faked it. Your audience would have seen something that was a little bit off, may or may not have been able to put a finger on it. You would have gone to the gym that evening, and it wouldn't have been a healthy thing. You would have beaten yourself up.

Yvonne Heimann [00:28:25]:
I would have carried it around for days, if not weeks. Yeah, it is a movement. Movement helps me. So chances are I would have shown up because I didn't have time to do anything else in that moment. I would have shown up. Anybody that doesn't know me closely probably would not have caught up on it. Everybody else would have been like, something I'm good at, putting on a face for people, and then probably move and move. A lot of walking following that day, but it would have taken me forever.

Matthew Riven [00:28:56]:
But you want somebody in your life, whether it's somebody you're working with temporarily, to teach you how to look for it in yourself, you now know you've learned that lesson. And you know, okay, I'm boiling. I picked up a backpack full of anger. I need to do something to set it down. And you need somebody in your life to be able to say, where are you coming from right now? What's going on right now? So a lot of times what we do is under the table. It's subconscious. It's unconscious to us. I was unconscious for most of us start off unconscious with a lot of things we do.

Matthew Riven [00:29:35]:
What we learned from our parents is the norm, isn't it? I had a friend of mine.

Yvonne Heimann [00:29:41]:
We don't know what we don't know.

Matthew Riven [00:29:42]:
We don't know what we don't know. I had a friend of mine who.

Yvonne Heimann [00:29:44]:
That's the truth.

Matthew Riven [00:29:45]:
Whose mom would screen it, them and their siblings for hours, plural. And he always thought that was the norm. That's not a healthy thing to live through, but he thought that was the norm. And, wait, that didn't happen to you or you. So we need to see those differences sometimes we need them pointed out to us. And what happens is you're sitting at a table, and everything above that is conscious. You can't see sometimes what's under the table. And so you need somebody to point out, you realize you just did this.

Matthew Riven [00:30:22]:
Above the table is the social message. This is what we do in society. Under the table is psychologically what's going on. It just so happens that I can sit back with a client, with you in this case, and I can see what's going on above the table, and every now and then, I can see what's going on underneath the table, and I can say, hang on, let's make this conscious and bring it on top. And that's really all I'm trying to do with clients is, where are you coming from? What are you doing? And how can we make that conscious? And so you can make the choice that you want. What do you want to change? Do you want to keep doing that? How do you get your desires met in a healthy way? How many people do you know who play games for their desires?

Yvonne Heimann [00:31:05]:
I did long enough.

Matthew Riven [00:31:07]:
Yeah. You're not asking for exactly what you want. You're playing a game.

Yvonne Heimann [00:31:12]:
And that was.

Matthew Riven [00:31:13]:
There's a thought that just went through your mind.

Yvonne Heimann [00:31:14]:
Uh huh. Uh huh. Because as much as I love my fellow women, and I was guilty of that myself for the longest time, guys can't read our mind. And it doesn't matter if that's in the bedroom or the boardroom.

Matthew Riven [00:31:28]:
Nobody can read your mind. Guys. Derek, girls are guys. Nobody can read your mind. Ask.

Yvonne Heimann [00:31:31]:
And it's always, but there comes the good girl back. I'm not supposed to say what I want. Oh, you got the wrong spot there, dude. Not really. But the same thing is happening in the boardroom, too. It's if you don't ask, the answer is always no. So no matter if it's what I want in the bedroom, but due wrong spot to, hey, wrong payment, wrong position, whatever it is, or even as a business owner, you brought me in as the expert, but yet now you're telling me what to do, right? No, it's the setting expectations. To take this into the business side of things.

Yvonne Heimann [00:32:13]:
Setting expectations rather than assuming the client is going to know when the calls are happening, how long are the calls, is it going to be in person? Is it going to be on Zoom? How much are you paying? When are you paying, what are you getting? That is setting expectations, that is clarifying the desire of how you going to work with a client.

Matthew Riven [00:32:35]:
Communication matters. Maybe a little bit. It's so much of everything, whether it's relationships with the spouse, whether it's relationship with your kids, whether it's relationships in the office with subordinates or management executives, communicate what is it that you want?

Yvonne Heimann [00:32:53]:
And ask questions. One, oh my God. One thing, and I've said it more than once. The idea of perception, that is one of the things that has been so predominant. Me being german language first and having learned English first of all, English has a 10th of the words that german language has. So the variations of, I don't even know how many variations we have between I like you and I love you, and they all mean a different depth of that feeling.

Matthew Riven [00:33:25]:
So there's clarity and explanation that you don't get in the english language as well. How many times have you looked at me and said, there's a word, there's no good english translations for this, and you're trying to explain, because I'm trying.

Yvonne Heimann [00:33:37]:
To get the meaning behind it. How I often explain perception with clients is think of a color red. Chances are you're going to think of the red I'm wearing right now because it's in front of me.

Matthew Riven [00:33:48]:
That's what you're seeing.

Yvonne Heimann [00:33:50]:
Doesn't mean that's the red I'm thinking about. There is so many different levels in red that I could be thinking about, but chances are you are getting, you are choosing the one that is closest to you that you saw last. That is just right there.

Matthew Riven [00:34:04]:
But you need to ask the question on the other side as well. You can do a great job of explaining what your red is, but you may be talking to somebody who is colorblind. Everything from colorblind. 9% of men are colorblind. Red. Green is the most common, all the way down to somebody who can tell you 92 different shades of red. And if you don't ask the question of what? Okay, I've just given you this. What are you hearing? What are you getting from me to make sure that you're both on the same page.

Matthew Riven [00:34:32]:
Communication, negot, communication, consent, negotiation, boundaries.

Yvonne Heimann [00:34:40]:
And by the way, if it's a maybe, it's a no.

Matthew Riven [00:34:42]:
It's a maybe, it's no.

Yvonne Heimann [00:34:43]:
Even if there's a hesitation, it's a no.

Matthew Riven [00:34:44]:
Well, we can get into that. Yeah. So communication, consent, negotiation, boundaries, safety. That is everything that you were taught early on, initially, before anything happens. When it comes to conscious kink. Conscious kink. That which is done with an intention. Fine.

Matthew Riven [00:35:02]:
Yes. You can go meet somebody. You can have a transactional, call it one night, stand back, somebody's ass. Great. That was fine. You enjoyed it. She enjoyed it. Fine.

Matthew Riven [00:35:10]:
Go on your way. What was it done with? Intention? What was the meaning behind it? What was all that? All of those conversations. Aren't those the exact same kind of conversations you should be having in the boardroom as well? Let's negotiate. Let's consent. Let's come to an agreement. What are the boundaries? What are the limits? What is okay? What is not okay? All of these conversations are the exact same thing we should be doing with partners. Let's take a vacation and go to Belize. How long do you want?

Yvonne Heimann [00:35:41]:
Here's the first question. What kind of vacation go are you? Are you the active one or are you the pool one?

Matthew Riven [00:35:47]:
Right? Do you want to sit by the beach and do absolutely nothing for a week? Are you the type of person who's going to go kayaking and cave tubing and snorkeling and scuba diving and go visit the mayan ruins? What's your vacation? Where are your boundaries? Where are your limits? All of that comes into play. That's the beauty sometimes of all of this kink education. You're comment about consent, both sides, men and women. You ask the question, you get an answer. Yes means yes. No means no. Maybe means no. I'm not sure.

Matthew Riven [00:36:22]:
No. Let me think about it. No.

Yvonne Heimann [00:36:25]:
And the same thing happens actually in your sales calls.

Matthew Riven [00:36:29]:
Yeah.

Yvonne Heimann [00:36:30]:
Because, you know, if it's not a straight up fuck yes, in a sales call, there is something missing. There is something missing in between. For your client to make this a.

Matthew Riven [00:36:42]:
Clear yes, I'm going to. I'll push back a little bit on that. With the sales call, you can negotiate, you can cajole, you can nudge, you can push. Depending on the quality of your salesman that you have working for you, they can also wear down.

Yvonne Heimann [00:37:03]:
Yeah, we don't want to do that. We don't do that.

Matthew Riven [00:37:05]:
But the problem with that is you end up getting consent regret. I said yes and I shouldn't have. Or you get resentment from a client. You should not ever be doing that with a sexual partner. She said no to doing x, but I'm gonna wear her down.

Yvonne Heimann [00:37:18]:
No. No. And I don't wear down in sales either.

Matthew Riven [00:37:22]:
So while we sales people who do.

Yvonne Heimann [00:37:24]:
While we agree, disagree in my case and my audience case, because for me, the it's not a fuck yes in a sales conversation is a data point. Yes. In the bedroom, if it's not a fuck yes, it's a no. No question about that.

Matthew Riven [00:37:40]:
Good. Okay.

Yvonne Heimann [00:37:40]:
In a sales conversation, it means I have not done my job right. That doesn't mean I'm gonna push you. That doesn't mean I want to get you to just sign. It means I have not served my potential client well enough for them to see that I am the best solution. Maybe I'm not the best solution. However, for me, in my sales process, a means I haven't spoken to all the pain points why they came to me.

Matthew Riven [00:38:11]:
As long as there's no undue pressure, that's going to end due pressure, getting somebody to. But we all know salesmen who do, and they're inappropriate.

Yvonne Heimann [00:38:22]:
We are not a sales car guy. We are not. Yeah.

Matthew Riven [00:38:24]:
As long as you're avoiding the consent regret, I think the best thing is the question. Okay, just tell me why. Tell me a little bit more. Give me more information. Get more information out of it.

Yvonne Heimann [00:38:37]:
We've come to the end of the first episode. Yes. This is the first time that we are having two episodes because to me, 1 hour long episode is just too much. And I had so much to talk about with Matthew that we decided we are splitting this into two episodes. So stay tuned because as I just said, there is more heat coming in a second episode. Make sure you subscribe and follow to get notified when that episode goes live. Make sure to check out Matthew's website@stearinstitute.com and go give him a follow on his new instagram account at Master Riven and I'll see you in the next episode.